Post by: Ohio Joe on February 28, 2008, 07:25:24 PM
When you think about it, it makes perfect sense. Bringing the Hawken style muzzleloading rifle into use with the cap and ball revolvers of the time.
I know we have access to the 'Cowboy Action Shooting' though that is IMHO no way even close to authentic other then in the eyes of the 'Hollywood Western' entusiest...
Muzzle Loading Plainsmen gatherings would be very similar to what we know as Rendevous today, although its theme would be that of the 1850's & 60's...
Who knows, it could be and event(s) that could spark some interest and growth in traditional muzzle loading, an event marriage between the cap-n-ball revolver's and the Hawken style Plains Rifle???
Any thoughts?
Post by: Dispatch 510 on February 29, 2008, 07:48:52 AM
Post by: Ohio Joe on February 29, 2008, 08:52:03 AM
I wonder if we should kind'a take a pole here to see what interest there is, and create some ideas for such an event?
Post by: Mitch on February 29, 2008, 11:26:19 AM
Post by: mike rumping on February 29, 2008, 12:51:49 PM
Post by: Uncle Russ on February 29, 2008, 01:07:31 PM
Many interesting things happened "out west" after the last Rendezvous in 1842, and it seems the evolution of firearms was at a very ripe stage.
And, like Mitch said, "it has been a lost era in re-enacting/fun events".....
Post by: Ohio Joe on February 29, 2008, 02:06:55 PM
It was a huge success which saw all groups of reenactments come together. No group felt left out, and the tourist loved it. So did the Cavalry that showed up in all their 1870's regalia. It was a good time!
Our Plainsmen Event would not cover such a wide era as to see cartidge firearms. That would be left to the later Plainsmen of the 1870' - '80's...
I think the eastern states could also benefit from such an event as well. Afterall, it was also the 1850's - 60's east of the Missouri as well, and I'm sure some extrodinary times in history took place back there, not including the Civil War, bit not leaving the Civil War out either.
I think the potential is here for such an event. We just need some starting places. I'm sure I could come up with one.
Post by: Shawnee Gene on March 01, 2008, 04:45:57 PM
Post by: faithtreker on July 19, 2008, 09:02:15 AM
Point is, I play at a lot of SASS events. I know most of the big SASS guys. I believe they could be convinced to sponsor such and event somewhere.
Return to Lonesome Dove would be a good selling point with them!
Post by: Riley/MN on July 19, 2008, 10:02:09 AM
I think it was a good idea that just didn't quite work out...
Post by: rollingb on July 19, 2008, 11:03:21 AM
Post by: BIG SKY TRAPPER on July 19, 2008, 11:27:49 AM
Just a basic BP shooting group, Were kinda of a all lumped together bunch of guys and gals who like a little history and a lot of BP. Interest range from the RMFT to just shy of the cartridge revolution.
We do hold a plains style "rondy" every year near Fort Benton Mt on the misssiouri river every year. (this years is the last weekend in Aug/first weekend in sept.
And during hunting season we have one mountain ranch and one plains ranch that allow club members exclusisive use of their properties for only Bp hunting.
Post by: Uncle Russ on July 19, 2008, 11:35:47 AM
I am absolutely clueless as to how this era could have slipped into something of obscurity with such little attention. To me it seems that time frame was a very interesting time with the Gold Rush, the Buffalo herds, and the settling of the Plains.
Faithtreker, thanks for bringing this back up.
Uncle Russ...
Post by: Roaddog on July 20, 2008, 08:52:23 AM
Post by: Uncle Russ on July 20, 2008, 12:46:13 PM
Uncle Russ...
Post by: sawbones on September 10, 2008, 02:09:22 PM
I would like to get our club more geared to this era, and I am definietly interested in getting involved with other outfits, and concentrating more on it.
Please let me know about any new clubs or events 5that focus more on this time period. thanks, Chuck
Post by: Ohio Joe on September 11, 2008, 12:05:37 AM
Our local White River Brigade is planning such an event for our 2009 schedule in which we'll be using C&B Revolvers and muzzleloading rifles. We plan on setting it up as a type of action shoot and see what kind of interest we can generate.
As Rondo has pointed out, events such as these do fall within many of our age groups here of young trappers growing old and moving out onto the plains for their livelyhood.
I think the idea has some merrit and perhaps those who belong to ML clubs could approach those in charge and see about coming up with a workable program. These programs/events could just as easily be moved into gathering type events such as our 1840's cut off Rendezvous have done for the past 30+ years.
Similar ideas exist, as well as clothing when you think about it. Sure the footware and hats may differ, and we might be totting a six shooter in a holster or stuck in our belt. Why not? Put an 1850's - 60's flavor into a club shooting match or gathering. It might be the coming thing, and certainly fill in a gap that has mostly been ignored, except for the Montana Plainsmen.
I'm not sure what our White River Brigade theme will be for this, but we're working on one.
Post by: sawbones on September 11, 2008, 01:28:22 AM
We're having our first rendezvous this weekend out at my place in Nevada. The old Applegate trail is only a couple of miles away from my land. Those guides, as well as all the emigrants were tough hearty people. But that all took place in 1848. I'm pretty sure they still relied on a good flintlock most of the time. And, as you know, most of those guides were mountain men in their younger days anyhow.
I believe in tradition, but I wish that the rendevous we have today, and the black powder clubs would change the cut off date from 1840 to say, 1860 or even 1850. I can see that would cause some problems at some shoots, especially if they allowed Civil War weapons. But, I think if they would cut it off at 1860, that problem would be eliminated, and about the only difference you would see would be cap and ball revolvers. That sounds real good to me.
We have a lot of guys in my club that feel the same. I think we will make a special effort to change our time period to at least 1850.
Joe, I like reading your posts, you always give out a lot of good information, and insight. I learn a lot everytime I get on this thing. Thanks again, let us know how all that goes.
Chuck
Post by: Roaddog on September 11, 2008, 04:08:32 AM
Post by: Ohio Joe on September 11, 2008, 09:53:25 PM
My idea was to try and build some interest through one or two of our monthly shoots, get a feel for what those who attend would like to see and take part in and build from there.
I do think that Plainsmen events could be billed strickly as
"Muzzleloading" Plainsmen Events, with perhaps an 1869 cutoff date. This would keep the cartridge guns out and open the door to the use of Civil War muzzleloaders and perhaps a few more types that otherwise are left out of gatherings because of cutoff
dates or the pure spirit of the gathering such as a North South Skirmish Association gathering.
Action targets for shoots would most likely be preferable such as
gongs and silhouettes. As long as a marriage can be made between the use of both C&B Revolvers, single shot muzzleloading rifles and single or double barreled flint or percussion shotguns, I think something like this would stand a chance and perhaps spur some interest in those that are looking for something a bit different then what is available today.
I've nothing against the Cowboy Action shoots, but they do not recreate any real history of this time period or any other for that matter with the program they run.
We need to maintain a level of realism in which the common person doesn't have to worry about being a speed shooter to compete and have a good time around the campfire and giving those a chance to use those six shooters that would otherwise be left behind at home because they don't meet a cutoff date.
With this said and with a little imagination a person who prefers to build a persona around such an event would have many persona's to choose from. Scout, Buffalo Hunter, 49'er, Lawman, Ranger, Military, Cowboy, Drifter, Outlaw, Gambler, Wagon Master, Trail Boss, Guide, Pioneer, Settler,,, the list is endless for the time period, and a big plus would be the ease in which to insert the women folk and kids into a persona. This alone can be a big plus!
I think we can keep this topic open and growing with ideas on how to further the development of such events.
Post by: Uncle Russ on September 11, 2008, 11:52:46 PM
Like others, I strongly believe the Plainsmen have a future in the shooting game.
Uncle Russ...
Post by: Minnesota Mike on September 12, 2008, 11:27:27 AM
Just make it clear - no metal cartidges, stick with percussion cap and flintlock - and you should be okay.
Hmm . . . What about paper cartidge shooters and breech loaders?
r/
MM
Post by: Ohio Joe on September 12, 2008, 02:06:56 PM
Quote from: "Minnesota Mike"
Agreed. Like where you're headed.
Just make it clear - no metal cartidges, stick with percussion cap and flintlock - and you should be okay.
Hmm . . . What about paper cartidge shooters and breech loaders?
r/
MM
Good point MM... My thoughts are to leave that to those who put an event like this on. Some clubs may feel different about cutoff dates and paper cartridge black powder firearms being included.
However if a club bills their event as C&B Revolvers, Flint & Caplock
Pistols, Single Shot Muzzleloading Rifles/Longarms, and Single & Double Brl Flint or Cap Shotguns, I wouldn't see a need to worry about it as long as they fall within the 1869 cutoff if they choose to use this date.
Post by: Minnesota Mike on September 15, 2008, 10:58:22 AM
I've found that most all shooters are willing to comply with the rules and requirements - IF they know up front and have a heads up on what to expect.
Had an event where there was timed targets for team competition and all that rules said was 'shoot from the pouch' - well to one member that meant paper cartidges were okay. A bit of unfair advantage however to everyone else who loaded from horn to measurer. When he found out that he could not use his pre-loads, which was all he came prepared to shoot, he was ready to head back for home.
Fortunately we had another shooter who also shot with paper cartidges and had some with him so that sort of evened out two teams. The third team just spit in their eyes and growled 'bring it on'.
r/
MM
Post by: Andy Anderson on September 25, 2008, 09:59:15 PM
Andy
Post by: Spotted Bull on September 25, 2008, 10:24:17 PM
Post by: Andy Anderson on September 26, 2008, 07:31:04 PM
Hate to be the devils advocate ------but in San Antone and Austin those German gunsmiths were turning out Colt conversions in the late 1860s. They shot cartridges with heeled bullets. Most left the c&b loading lever rite on the gun. I have one of these but don't shoot it cause the ammo is too expensive.
Also the plainsmen might have had a 66' Winchester or so (Indians most likely got 'em first), but the guns of reliability and power were the plains rifles. The early Texas Rangers of the 50s and 60s sure had 'em accross their saddles, ------there is Charlie Goodnights old plains rifle on display at the Museum in Canyon. He had it when he was a Ranger.
Post by: Shawnee Gene on February 01, 2009, 01:24:55 PM
Post by: Gordon H.Kemp on March 05, 2009, 08:59:32 PM
People whose relatives didn't come to America till the 1840s 50s and 60s Find it harder to relate to pre 1800 groups. Sounds like a great oppertunitty to provide a central theme for a whole lot of folks.
Post by: Ohio Joe on March 05, 2009, 10:17:25 PM
Our local club has yet to hammer out any real details on such an event, but at times we still talk about doing something along these lines, and perhaps this year we might just get a blend of the revolver and rifle to come together?
Unfortunately right now the country's economy is in a shambles and people I believe aren't willing to spend what money they do have on new recreational ideas. Then again they might? If for no other reason then to search out simpler times?
Post by: swampman on March 06, 2009, 04:44:56 AM
Post by: Thunderhawk1828 on August 25, 2009, 10:43:40 PM
No disrespect to Craig - I enjoy his updates and various dates in history info - but it does not get the topic of having a Plainsman Era (my opinion 1840-1850, maybe 1860) up and going.
What type of firearms as we talking about in this Era? I know muzzle-loaders ("plans type cap-lock rifle / older flintlock rifles) but what type of revolvers / pistols? I think Jed Smith has a couple .36 cal (?) cap lock revolvers when he died (still during Fur Trade Era), but what type Of revolvers are we talking about (manuf / model, etc).
This is a long lost era that I personally would like to more about - the transition period between Fur Trade and Pre-Civil War.
Hope to hear from others.
Thanks.
Thunderhawk
Post by: Craig Tx on August 26, 2009, 07:46:16 PM
This was just the forum I was sent to for such things. I expect since Texas is more or less plains...
Then I end up moderatin' it...
I haven't done anything with any of the threads since I took over this portion of the forum.
Craig
Post by: Thunderhawk1828 on August 26, 2009, 09:05:57 PM
Anyone else out there have any additional comments about the time period I mentioned above? Seems that there was some enthusiasm in the time period but in March it just suddenly died off?
Keep up the good work Craig - again do like to see what you find and post.
Thunderhawk