Post by: melsdad on April 23, 2008, 10:38:28 AM
At the moment I have no period appropiate clothing at all. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Post by: TomG on April 23, 2008, 10:59:27 AM
Its in our preffered merchant section.
http://www.bellandcompanytraders.com/outfits.html (http://www.bellandcompanytraders.com/outfits.html)
Im trying to put together a longhunter outfit myself.
Right now it consists of brown canvas painters pants from walmart,$16.00,(cut off the hammer loop and the side pockets)or a long hunters shirt will cover it.
Then I purchased an 18th century work shirt from Log Cabin Shop,$27.00.
I also purchased a really nice Longhunter shirt,(knee length) from Mike Branson.
Last I bought a pair of minnitonka moccs, not P/C but all I could get for now.
Im gradually working on my clothing to make it P/C.
Its just taking me a while.
If its this weekend you may not have much time to order and get it in.
Hope this helps.
Post by: melsdad on April 23, 2008, 11:06:44 AM
Quote from: "TomG"
If its this weekend you may not have much time to order and get it in.
Hope this helps.
I don't need the clothes for this weekend. Fort Fredrick is having a 18th century market fair where I plan to buy some clothing, and accoutrements.
Thanks for the information, and the link. I have checked there before. looks like quality clothing. I just want to see the stuff before I buy for now.
Post by: Minnesota Mike on April 23, 2008, 11:21:48 AM
- Moccasins (shifted from boots once he got to the woods)
- Dropfront trousers
- Leggings (leather or wool)
- Garters (to keep up the leggings - leather or braided sash)
- Suspender to keep trousers up
- Drop shoulder shirt (can wear hanging out or tucked in)
- Leather belt (for knife and hawk and belt pouch - since no pockets in pants)
- Hunting Frock (may want another belt or sash that keeps frock closed since frocks have no buttons, or can use same leather belt. I prefer seperate. My everyday belt with knife and pouch, and then outer garmet belt with hawk, maybe another knife, and if needed another belt pouch)
- Neckerchief (good size, not the common bandana - really helps keep wind off neck)
- Hat (all manner of styles and shapes - usually have something with a brim to keep rain out of your eyes)
I'd check out online sellers like Jas Townsend, Panther Primitive, Log Cabin Shop to get an idea of how sizes run, materials that are used and prices that they charge. That way you can go to Fort Fred better informed and prepared for what the vendors there want to charge you.
I'd also be open and honest with the different vendors - tell them what you're trying to do and sort of outfit you want to put together. Most of the ones I've dealt with have been up front with what they have or don't - and if they don't have what I needed, they pointed out which other vendor might.
-----------------------------------
For some ideas i'd get one of these two:
Longhunter Sketchbook
http://www.jastown.com/milbook/bk-433.htm (http://www.jastown.com/milbook/bk-433.htm) Ideas and patterns for clothing and gear of the men who explored and tamed the wilderness. 1750-1820, mostly eastern U.S.
BK-433.....$6.00
Recreating the American Longhunter: 1740-1790
http://www.jastown.com/miscbook/bk-569.htm (http://www.jastown.com/miscbook/bk-569.htm) Describes how and where the American longhunter lived. Discusses the clothing, weapons, and equipment used in the everyday life of a longhunter. 65 pages. Paperback.
Recreating the American Longhunter: 1740-1790.....$10.00
Jas. Townsend & Son seems to have best price for them for now.
-------------------
That should get you your basic persona outfit - if you're interested in the rest of a Longhunter's gear and equipment, let me know.
r/
MM
Post by: RichW on April 23, 2008, 11:57:30 AM
Linen before 1800, cotton after.
Hunting frocks: pullover is mostly military. No capes before Rev. War.
Colors have modern associations: green = Tory Ranger, White = military or newbee, bad walnut dye job = Mark Baker Wannabe (sorry, Mark, but you know they are called that). I like to think this way: If you bought the fabric, you could buy whatever color was available. If the cloth is homespun, the number of colors is more limited, but hey, if your wife/mother can grow it, process it, spin it and weave it, she can probably do a pretty good dye job too. Indigo blue is the most common civilian color after 1800.
Trousers: you must define a time frame first. Most fall fronts are broad fall. That is mid-1830's to 1870's (or 1970's if you are in the Navy). Narrow fall: 1810's-20's. Medium fall: same as 18th c. knee breeches in style, and 1750's-1810-ish.
Leggings: leather is expensive and needs to be researches. It is also awful to wear wet. Wool is cheaper, and good for most conditions. Cotton/other needs researching. Go for side seam. Center seam is late and region-specific.
Footwear. I would go for a good pair of buckle shoes to start (pre-1800). They can fit into any historic situation, and will last a long time, and they don't need "updating" as you learn and grow.
36" square silk scarf. Find these at most events for $10-$15. Black, white or color of your choice.
Garters: use wide wool tape for now. 36" long for each leg.
Sash: that's a hornet's nest that could take up a whole topic. Period leather belts are safe.
Note: most vendors do not tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. You can be pretty authentic for the same $$$ as the guy who buys based on what the catalogs say. You just have to do more research.
Post by: jasontn on April 23, 2008, 02:01:08 PM
thanks
Post by: melsdad on April 23, 2008, 02:42:28 PM
Post by: RichW on April 23, 2008, 03:36:29 PM
Historically speaking, sashes come in 3 kinds:
1. Indian made, finger woven.
2. Loomed linen or wool.
3. Non-Indian made finger woven for the Indian trade.
#2 is the only option that is affordable for most, but what you see for sale is a poor substitute for the original.
You will see for sale:
a. Inkle woven sashes in multi-color stripe and dash patterns. Usually wool.
The originals are usually linen, and made with more complex weaving techniques. I have never seen a good reproduction.
b. Loom woven trade sashes in cotton, polyester, or wool. These are reproductions of post-1830's fur trade sashes. The originals were wool, machine woven to look like finger woven sashes. If you are doing post-1830's fur trade, the wool ones are an option. But they probably were not common until the 1860's.
c. Military sashes in silk/poly or wool. These are military sashes. Not a longhunter item.
Options #1 & #3 are hand made and sold by the inch. Not cheap!
Well? You asked!
Post by: jasontn on April 23, 2008, 03:44:50 PM
thanks just the kind of answer i was looking for.
Post by: RichW on April 23, 2008, 03:56:14 PM
Post by: Eric S Campbell on April 23, 2008, 05:38:14 PM
Shirt- Either a frock or a smock, the smock could also be cut down the middle. Also a regular shirt will do fine.
Leggings- Leather which gets wet cold and slimmy and is hard to dry, wool jean fabric, linen, or wool medium weight which is your best option.
Pants- either a breech clout or fall front or french fly. Also trousers work but no suspenders as far as I know.
Stockings.
Mocs or buckle shoes.
And a hat, either tri corn or a broad brimmed hat. A silk scarf or monmouth cap.
Also A leather belt with a non forged buckle. Card woven sashes will work. The best reproduction I have seen was by Nathan Kobuck!.
If you have anymore questions just ask.
Post by: Minnesota Mike on April 23, 2008, 05:43:57 PM
Quote from: "Eric S Campbell"
Pants- either a breech clout or fall front or french fly. Also trousers work but no suspenders as far as I know.
Reason I suggested the suspenders or braces is that belts were not used to keep your pants up. They were there for holding on to other things like knives, hawks, pouches and such.
So unless he gets pants that are a real good and don't work their way southward on him, he's gonna need something to keep from getting a draft aft.
Breech clout is seperate issue, you wear something with that to keep it where it should be.
r/
MM
Post by: Eric S Campbell on April 23, 2008, 05:50:47 PM
Post by: Minnesota Mike on April 23, 2008, 06:15:55 PM
Quote from: "Eric S Campbell"
If you get your size pants then you should not have a problem with them falling off. I have never had that problem yet. In the bag they had a gusset so you can adjust it for about 3" give or take.
Hmmm . . . suspect you have not had the 'dunlop' problem yet . . .
r/
MM
Post by: jasontn on April 23, 2008, 06:20:23 PM
Post by: melsdad on April 23, 2008, 07:12:47 PM
Aside from my boots, go ahead and pick away at what I have in mind....opinions please :?
Post by: Hota on April 23, 2008, 08:34:52 PM
When are you going to FT. Frederick? I'll be there on Friday from about 1130am - 5pm.
Post by: melsdad on April 23, 2008, 09:20:51 PM
Quote from: "Hota"
What you've laid out should cost much.
Not trying to razz ya one bit, but did you mean "shouldn't cost much" or am I looking at a small fortune?
Quote from: "Hota"
When are you going to FT. Frederick? I'll be there on Friday from about 1130am - 5pm.
I am heading down Saturday morning.
Post by: Minnesota Mike on April 24, 2008, 10:47:12 AM
Noticed that you missed garters or gaiters to keep the leggings held up. (although the strips of wool Rich suggested work just fine)
Also - you want to pick up some sort of belt pouch since the breeches do not have pockets.
Good luck and let us know how you fared at the faire . . .
r/
MM
Post by: Mitch on April 24, 2008, 12:02:38 PM
Post by: Steve S on April 24, 2008, 02:05:49 PM
Quote from: "melsdad"
O.K., so let me narrow this down a bit. Say I am a longhunter in the time period of 1750-1760. I am wearing a wide brimmed hat, and a linen checked pattern hunting shirt that hangs past my thighs, a 2" wide leather belt with a round brass buckle that is holding my hawk and a knife. I am wearing drop front knee breeches with wool leggings. And for the time being I will be wearing my carhart wellingtons as my footwear.
Aside from my boots, go ahead and pick away at what I have in mind....opinions please :?
I'd guess french-fly breeches would be more common before about 1765.....but,technically,I wouldn't class people as longhunters much before that date
Steve
Post by: Two Steps on April 24, 2008, 02:16:01 PM
) has, I think, three "starter outfits" that run from $99.00 to $168.00. You might PM Half Dan and ask him about what you need.
Al
Post by: melsdad on April 24, 2008, 02:23:14 PM
Quote from: "Two Steps"
melsdad...as was noted above, Bell & Company has some good deals. Half Dan (who owns the joint
You might PM Half Dan and ask him about what you need.
Al
I just may do that. When I am at Fort Fredrick, I may just look around and see what is available, and learn from what I see. Then I can place an order at Bell Co. I have read many great reviews on his clothing.
Post by: the Black Spot on July 06, 2008, 04:38:51 PM
i have always wondered why no-one in that time period dyed there "new" off white shirts in blueberries, mulberries, or blackberries. the juice from these sure stain pretty well. did they not have any of these items back in the late 1700's?
Post by: Lady of the Woods on July 06, 2008, 11:28:46 PM
I beg to differ slightly with what Eric said about leather leggins, my braintan leggins are certainly not slimey. Though as he said, they are expensive (in time and talent or moola).
Zan
Post by: mike rumping on July 07, 2008, 12:38:28 AM
I've yet to see any of today's wool that would handle that task, unless it was a baby rattler. I've been in snow, rain, sleet, and deep streams and creeks with my deerskin leggins, and they will dry somewhat by a night fire, but just make sure ya don't cook 'em like a friend of mine did. LOL Oh and ya kin eat poke leaves if ya get em in spring, mom used to make poke greens n bear meat that would just melt in your mouth. Sumac gives a nice confederate gray color, but not the poison sumac!!!Mike
Post by: Carolina Joe on July 17, 2013, 10:43:14 AM
Quote from: "Minnesota Mike"
In simplest terms, Longhunter would probably be:
- Moccasins (shifted from boots once he got to the woods)
- Dropfront trousers
- Leggings (leather or wool)
- Garters (to keep up the leggings - leather or braided sash)
- Suspender to keep trousers up
- Drop shoulder shirt (can wear hanging out or tucked in)
- Leather belt (for knife and hawk and belt pouch - since no pockets in pants)
- Hunting Frock (may want another belt or sash that keeps frock closed since frocks have no buttons, or can use same leather belt. I prefer seperate. My everyday belt with knife and pouch, and then outer garmet belt with hawk, maybe another knife, and if needed another belt pouch)
- Neckerchief (good size, not the common bandana - really helps keep wind off neck)
- Hat (all manner of styles and shapes - usually have something with a brim to keep rain out of your eyes)
I'd check out online sellers like Jas Townsend, Panther Primitive, Log Cabin Shop to get an idea of how sizes run, materials that are used and prices that they charge. That way you can go to Fort Fred better informed and prepared for what the vendors there want to charge you.
I'd also be open and honest with the different vendors - tell them what you're trying to do and sort of outfit you want to put together. Most of the ones I've dealt with have been up front with what they have or don't - and if they don't have what I needed, they pointed out which other vendor might.
-----------------------------------
For some ideas i'd get one of these two:
Longhunter Sketchbook
Jas. Townsend and Son, Inc. - (http://www.jastown.com/milbook/bk-433.htm) Ideas and patterns for clothing and gear of the men who explored and tamed the wilderness. 1750-1820, mostly eastern U.S.
BK-433.....$6.00
Recreating the American Longhunter: 1740-1790
Jas. Townsend and Son, Inc. - (http://www.jastown.com/miscbook/bk-569.htm) Describes how and where the American longhunter lived. Discusses the clothing, weapons, and equipment used in the everyday life of a longhunter. 65 pages. Paperback.
Recreating the American Longhunter: 1740-1790.....$10.00
Jas. Townsend & Son seems to have best price for them for now.
-------------------
That should get you your basic persona outfit - if you're interested in the rest of a Longhunter's gear and equipment, let me know.
r/
MM
Post by: Riley/MN on July 17, 2013, 10:52:19 AM
Good to see you diggin through the old posts, but we haven't seen Minnesota Mike around here in coon's age - It's been over three years since he has even logged on.... Just lettin you know.
Post by: Uncle Russ on July 17, 2013, 03:37:53 PM
Quote from: "Riley/MN"
Hey Joe,
Good to see you diggin through the old posts, but we haven't seen Minnesota Mike around here in coon's age - It's been over three years since he has even logged on.... Just lettin you know.
Yep, Joe, like Riley said, it's good to see someone with the interest digging through the old posts.
There's tons of information here on this forum, for just about any era of Traditional Muzzleloading anyone might want to pursue.
It is not unusual for many of the old timers, myself include, to see that a lot of the questions, both asked and answered, keep appearing from time to time.
One aspect of an old "beat to death" subject may catch someone's eye and it will be brought up again, but this time with new research, new learning, and new insight, a better answer, better than ever before, may be given.
And that is exactly as it should be!
You keep reading, and keep asking your questions, because the TMA is your Traditional Muzzleloading answer place!
Uncle Russ...
Post by: Riley/MN on July 17, 2013, 04:35:57 PM
Quote from: "RussB"
You keep reading, and keep asking your questions, because the TMA is your Traditional Muzzleloading answer place!
:hairy :hairy
Post by: Carolina Joe on July 17, 2013, 07:26:59 PM
Thanks for the info, all you guys really make it a joy to log on everyday and hear your advice.
Post by: Loyalist Dave on September 03, 2013, 08:32:42 AM
Quote
i have always wondered why no-one in that time period dyed there "new" off white shirts in blueberries, mulberries, or blackberries. the juice from these sure stain pretty well. did they not have any of these items back in the late 1700's?
Because you don't use food for dye, and none of those are very color-fast. They fade pretty quickly.
Poke-berries too.
Red and blue are tough to dye with natural dyes in North America, with Madder or Cochineal and Indigo being the preferred sources, Madder and Cochineal being imported, and Indigo being an intensive process.
Gray to black, yellow, light tan to dark brown, and even light green are available and simple veg dyes in North America. When I say simple, I mean that I was able to dye those colors.
I'm not very sophisticated in my domestic, cloth arts. An iron pot, boiling water, and some sort of plant is about all that I know. If you check
http://etext.lib.virginia.edu/etcbin/ot2www-costa?specfile=/web/data/users/costa/costa.o2w you will find the differing colors available. Oznabrigs is an light brown, natural, course linen, and apparently very common in shirts and shifts.
LD