Important Dates in Gun History

[Uncle Russ]

I think many of you will find this interesting.....sooo much to learn, so little time!

http://armscollectors.com/gunhistorydates.htm

Russ...

[rollingb]

Thanks Russ,.... that's very interesting. 
Black powder has been makin' smoke for 772 years according to that time-line chart. 

One think that struck me as being an error was,......
Duelling pistols became officially standardized weapons -then it was laid down that they should be 9 or 10 inch barreled, smooth bore flintlocks of 1 inch bore, carrying a ball of forty- eight to the pound 

[Bigsmoke]

I found this entry interesting:

Duelling pistols became officially standardized weapons -then it was laid down that they should be 9 or 10 inch barreled, smooth bore flintlocks of 1 inch bore, carrying a ball of forty- eight to the pound

48 to the pound for a 1" bore?  They might have wanted to say 4 to the pound.

You caught that also, rollingb.  Good on ya.

[rollingb]

I found this entry interesting:

Duelling pistols became officially standardized weapons -then it was laid down that they should be 9 or 10 inch barreled, smooth bore flintlocks of 1 inch bore, carrying a ball of forty- eight to the pound

48 to the pound for a 1" bore?  They might have wanted to say 4 to the pound.

You caught that also, rollingb.  Good on ya.

That would be a heap closer! 

[Oldetexian]

I think many of you will find this interesting.....sooo much to learn, so little time!

http://armscollectors.com/gunhistorydates.htm

Russ...

WOW! Some truly fascinating info here! I had never seen this before so am learning a lot. As always, thank you, my friend. Really appreciate you sharing.

[rollingb]

I'm surprised there is no "time line" shown for the Northwest Trade Gun, given it's history,......

http://thefurtrapper.com/home/indian-trade-guns/

http://www.speakingcedar.com/in-depth-northwest-guns.html

[Oldetexian]

I'm surprised there is no "time line" shown for the Northwest Trade Gun, given it's history,......

http://thefurtrapper.com/home/indian-trade-guns/

http://www.speakingcedar.com/in-depth-northwest-guns.html

WOW! Great articles, rollingbl! I really need to find out more about my trade gun. It's .75 cal. and has the serpent sideplate, but the lock has US on it. I will work on get some photos posted...then some of you "more learned" folks can help me with my education...

[Uncle Russ]

I'm surprised there is no "time line" shown for the Northwest Trade Gun, given it's history,......

http://thefurtrapper.com/home/indian-trade-guns/

http://www.speakingcedar.com/in-depth-northwest-guns.html

Lots and lots of good reading here. I've been here before and
It's very hard o leave......to say the least.
Has anyone heard the expession, "The sitting Fox must face East"?
It has been mentioned that there was once an effort to counterfeit the Barnet guns, but the Fox was wrong facing and the Natives refused the guns.....fact or old wives tales??

[rollingb]

I'm surprised there is no "time line" shown for the Northwest Trade Gun, given it's history,......

http://thefurtrapper.com/home/indian-trade-guns/

http://www.speakingcedar.com/in-depth-northwest-guns.html

Lots and lots of good reading here. I've been here before and
It's very hard o leave......to say the least.
Has anyone heard the expession, "The sitting Fox must face East"?
It has been mentioned that there was once an effort to counterfeit the Barnet guns, but the Fox was wrong facing and the Natives refused the guns.....fact or old wives tales??

I've never heard that expression used before, but I'll look in my BIG trade gun book (I got from Mr. Hanson) and see if I can find any such reference. 

[Winter Hawk]

Per Ned Roberts (The Muzzle-Loading Caplock Rifle) there were several manufacturers of trade guns who used the sitting fox, facing either way and it seemed to make no difference to the trade.  Howsomever, that was written in 1940 and newer archeological/anthropological information may ahve given the lie to that statement.

~Kees~

[rollingb]

Per Ned Roberts (The Muzzle-Loading Caplock Rifle) there were several manufacturers of trade guns who used the sitting fox, facing either way and it seemed to make no difference to the trade.  Howsomever, that was written in 1940 and newer archeological/anthropological information may ahve given the lie to that statement.

~Kees~

Dang,.... I'd been working on my findings in FIREARMS of the FUR TRADE by James A Hanson, for over an hour, and "POOF" it all just disappeared.

So,.... I'll just summarize a bit of what I found, by saying it appears,.... Thomas Barnett started the North West Company and was making North West Guns around 1789. He also imitated Hudson's Bay Company's "fox-in-tombstone" and used the same mark on his guns in addition to using the initials "IB" under the fox. This mark continued to be used on the North West Company's "Barnett" trade guns by Thomas's son, Robert Barnett, who added "R. Burnett" to the tail of the lock until around 1820. 

There were many companies making North West trade guns over a period of about 200 years and well into the "percussion era" with (somewhat) minor differences, and with "foxes" looking (both) "east and west".

After checking this huge 580 page book that primarily concentrates on North West Trade Guns,.... I can find no reference that uses the word "counterfeit", except for Hanson's usage of the word "imitation" mentioned above. 

[Uncle Russ]

I suspect Imitation is a better word. But I have read where the Fox was inverted to face the opposite way, and was looked upon as an "unworthy" gun by some of the trade groups.
I am also looking for where I found that, or read that.
Like I said before, "Was that a fact, or was it just another old wives tale?"
When I find something, and God only knows where I found that the first time around, I'll be sure to share it.

From Rondo's very worthwhile book, it should have something, at least a little something, about this, one would think.

[Spotted Bull]

FIREARMS of the FUR TRADE by James A Hanson, is that the 580 page book?

[rollingb]

FIREARMS of the FUR TRADE by James A Hanson, is that the 580 page book?

Yessir! 
http://www.newtitleshowcase.com/search-list-details.php?id=132411

[Spotted Bull]

FIREARMS of the FUR TRADE by James A Hanson, is that the 580 page book?

Yessir! 
http://www.newtitleshowcase.com/search-list-details.php?id=132411

oh yeah! Ive already been cruising the used book sites for a copy!