Welcome to the TMA - the Traditional Muzzleloading Association

The TMA is always free to access: totally non-profit and therefore no nagging for your money, no sponsors means no endless array of ads to wade through, and no "membership fees" ever required. Brought to you by traditional muzzleloaders with decades of wisdom in weaponry, accoutrements, and along with 18th and 19th century history knowledge of those times during the birth our nation, the United States of America.

!!! PLEASE CLICK HERE TO READ AN IMPORTANT TMA MESSAGE !!!

Author Topic: Forty Years on the Frontier  (Read 165 times)

Offline Ohio Joe

  • TMA BoD
  • ****
  • Posts: 7637
  • Total likes: 306
  • TMA Founder / Charter Member# 8
  • TMA Member: Founder
  • Location: Nebraska
Forty Years on the Frontier
« on: March 08, 2020, 12:30:54 PM »
I think this would make for an excellent read. I ran across it on another Forum, and thought it worthy of sharing it here;

I accidentally ran across the name of Granville Stuart (1834-1918), generally acknowledged as a pioneer and early cattleman in the state of Montana. He also wrote an autobiography, entitled Forty Years on the Frontier. Google Books has kindly provided us with a substantial excerpt online. Here's the link, if you want to have a look: Forty Years on the Frontier

In reading the excerpt, I found that Mr. Stuart was born in Virginia in 1834, but his family moved to Illinois in 1837, then across the Mississippi to Iowa territory in 1838. The first chapter of Mr. Stuart's autobiography deals with his childhood in eastern Iowa.

This is really interesting reading. There were still some native people present, whom Stuart identified as "Musquawkee" Indians, likely either Fox or Prairie Potawatomi. He described them as "good kind-hearted people," and he and his family got on very well with them. He reported malaria was very common among the pioneers there. He also described plenty of good timber east of the prairie, including sugar maple trees, which they tapped for syrup and sugar. Malaria? Maple sugar? I had never considered either in connection with Iowa. He said there was "an abundance of game," including deer, elk, turkeys, prairie chickens, squirrels, and beaver. Naturally, the men were hunters.


Mr. Stuart devoted several paragraphs to discussing the guns they used. Here's a quote: The guns used for hunting in those days [1843-1850] were flintlock rifles brought by the frontiersmen from Virginia and Kentucky. They were full-stocked... They were heavy, weighing from eleven to thirteen pounds, all hand work with small calibers, running from about sixty round bullets to a pound of lead... Father had two guns which I well remember, as it was with these guns that he taught me to hunt. One was a flint-lock that he used when hunting along streams where there was timber and little wind. If the weather was cold and snow on the ground he could quickly start a fire with his flint-lock by which he would dress the deer he had killed. With the gun he was sure of killing a deer, if it was within one hundred and twenty five yard distance. The other gun he used while hunting on the prairies or out in the wind. It was a small bore rifle fired with percussion caps placed on the nipple. The cap would not blow off as did the powder in the pan of the flint-lock" (pp. 32-33).


He reported a neighbor had "a flint-lock half-stock, of large caliber for those days, using forty round balls to the pound of lead." He stated that this was "the first half-stocked gun I ever saw."


There is a lot of information in all of that. It sounds as if full stocked southern long rifles were pretty common on the Iowa frontier, and flintlocks were in general use, even in the late 1840's. It appears that Stuart's father felt he was only at a disadvantage with the flintlock in heavy wind, and he deliberately chose the flinter in cold weather. As described, he could use it to start a fire, if needed. However, in reading other period writings, I've several times run across references to "self-priming" flintlocks. Obviously, this means some of the main powder charge would leak through the touch hole and into the pan. However, many of the old timers considered this a good thing, as it saved a step in the loading process. If you have ever tried to manipulate #11 caps with wet, cold, greasy, or arthritic fingers, you can see the advantage. In my opinion, this was probably one reason flintlocks held on for as long as they did.


I had also read in other places that the old pioneers got along with smaller calibers than we deem necessary nowadays. Balls that run sixty to the pound measure 0.427". Allowing for a little windage, this would likely be for about a .44 caliber rifle. Stuart did mention the neigbor's rifle with a larger bore, but lead balls weighing forty to the pound would only measure 0.488". Again allowing for some windage, this was likely about a fifty caliber rifle.

There is also the issue of weight. There are few among us these days who want to carry a rifle of eleven to thirteen pounds, but this was the norm on the frontier. I believe Stuart is accurate in all of this, as old Tennessee rifles my father collected many years ago are all long and heavy.

Anyway, there is a great deal of information in Mr. Stuart's book, and the short excerpt on Google Books alone has a lot for us history buffs to digest. My apologies to those among you who have Iowa connections, but I had not given much thought to the early frontier in that state, up until now. There is so much to learn.
Chadron Fur Trade Days Rendezvous / "Ol' Candle Snuffer"
"Museum of the Fur Trade" Chadron, Nebraska

Offline BEAVERMAN

  • TMA Contributing Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 6204
  • Total likes: 545
  • TMA: TMA Vice President
  • TMA Member: Charter Member #145
  • Location: Vaughn, WA
Re: Forty Years on the Frontier
« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2020, 02:29:41 PM »
Interesting excerpt Joe, thanks for sharing this!
Jim Smith
TMA Vice President
Charter Member #145  EXPIRATION 1/21/27
Green River Mountain Men
Peninsula Longrifles
WSMA
U.S.M.C.
BSA                    
Save America. Spay or neuter a liberal today.

"An armed man is a citizen,..an unarmed man is a subject!"

Online rollingb

  • TMA Admin
  • ****
  • Posts: 7166
  • Total likes: 328
  • TMA Founder
  • TMA: Founder
  • TMA Member: TMA Charter Member#6
  • Location: Northwest KS
Re: Forty Years on the Frontier
« Reply #2 on: March 08, 2020, 11:55:19 PM »
Sounds like some interestin' readin', thanks Joe.  :toast
"An honest man is worth his weight in gold"
For only $1.25 per-month, you too can help preserve our traditional muzzleloading heritage.
TMA Founder
TMA Charter Member #6

Puffer

  • Guest
Re: Forty Years on the Frontier
« Reply #3 on: March 09, 2020, 02:40:16 PM »
 :toast

Offline waksupi

Re: Forty Years on the Frontier
« Reply #4 on: March 09, 2020, 02:58:14 PM »
It's a good book, lots of interesting first hand observations.
The Mesquakie are the confederated Sac & Fox tribes.
My nephew in Iowa is just finishing up making a batch of maple syrup. He collected over 75 gallons of sap to start this spring.
Our Masonic Lodge is in posession of Granville Stuart's branding iron. First brand in Montana, made up of the square and compass of the Lodge. He was a Mason, as were many of the first settlers here, including many in the vigilantees. Remnants of that memory is seen on highway patrol cars, carrying 3-7-77 on them.

Offline Oldetexian

  • TMA BoD
  • ****
  • Posts: 923
  • Total likes: 4
  • TMA: Virginia State Rep.
  • TMA Member: TMA Supporting Member #831, expiration 4/17/2021
  • Location: Virgina
Re: Forty Years on the Frontier
« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2020, 10:05:25 AM »
Thanks Joe. This was an excellent post...a fun read fur sure.
Virginia State Rep.
TMA BoD



"fiat justitia ruat caelum"
(let justice be done though the heavens fall)

Ray Buchanan

Offline Ohio Joe

  • TMA BoD
  • ****
  • Posts: 7637
  • Total likes: 306
  • TMA Founder / Charter Member# 8
  • TMA Member: Founder
  • Location: Nebraska
Re: Forty Years on the Frontier
« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2020, 07:17:04 PM »
Back in Ohio (many a moon before I moved to Nebraska) my youngest brother's father & mother in-law gave him and their daughter Doreen, an old muzzle loading rifle for above their fire place. It must of had at least a 40+ inch long barrel on it - (small caliber) - maybe .30 / .31 / .32 caliber? And it was a cap lock...

It was old!!! But in pretty darn good shape. I can't remember the name (barely readable) on the top flat - but I bet that rifle didn't weigh an ounce under 11-1/2 to 12+? pounds... It was a working man's rifle made to put meat on the table, and had extremely low fixed sights on it.

If I recall, I believe it belonged to Doreen's great great grand pappy (on her mother's side), they were from Pennsylvania... This was back in the mid 1980's...

I don't think that rife ever spent one day above their fire place, but rather stored away in a closet corner.

So in that post when they say; (They were heavy, weighing from eleven to thirteen pounds) I don't doubt it one bit!  :shake
Chadron Fur Trade Days Rendezvous / "Ol' Candle Snuffer"
"Museum of the Fur Trade" Chadron, Nebraska

Online Winter Hawk

Re: Forty Years on the Frontier
« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2020, 12:03:01 PM »
After reading the original post here, I got a copy of "40 Years on the Frontier" and it is every bit as good as stated.  :hairy

I (respectfully) beg to differ with Joe on the 60 balls to the pound being .44 caliber.  The gauge was not determined by what size ball was used in the barrel, but by how many actual bore sized balls go into a pound of lead.  Per "The Northwest Gun" by Charles Hanson in the chapter on Indian Rifles, 60 gauge is .42 caliber.  So a rifle of 60 to the pound would probably shoot a .40 or .41 patched ball.

~Kees~
NMLRA Life
"All you need for happiness is a good gun, a good horse and a good wife." - D. Boone
USN June 1962-Nov. 65, USS Philip, DD-498

Dues paid to 02 Jan. 2027

Offline Ohio Joe

  • TMA BoD
  • ****
  • Posts: 7637
  • Total likes: 306
  • TMA Founder / Charter Member# 8
  • TMA Member: Founder
  • Location: Nebraska
Re: Forty Years on the Frontier
« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2020, 12:32:04 PM »
After reading the original post here, I got a copy of "40 Years on the Frontier" and it is every bit as good as stated.  :hairy

I (respectfully) beg to differ with Joe on the 60 balls to the pound being .44 caliber.  The gauge was not determined by what size ball was used in the barrel, but by how many actual bore sized balls go into a pound of lead.  Per "The Northwest Gun" by Charles Hanson in the chapter on Indian Rifles, 60 gauge is .42 caliber.  So a rifle of 60 to the pound would probably shoot a .40 or .41 patched ball.

~Kees~

Kees, you are correct on the ball size, my math showed one thing and my mind made my fingers type another thing... :Doh!

I've yet to get a copy of the book, but it's on my list for sure... I've been dropping hints what I would like for Christmas (I know it's early, but if I whine enough - I might just get something I asked for) :lol sign - And I'll add that, I've loved every present I ever got!!! :hairy
Chadron Fur Trade Days Rendezvous / "Ol' Candle Snuffer"
"Museum of the Fur Trade" Chadron, Nebraska

Online doggoner

  • TMA Contributing Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 181
  • Total likes: 36
  • TMA: Supporting Member # 687
  • TMA Member: Membership Expiration; 9/2021
Re: Forty Years on the Frontier
« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2020, 01:16:23 PM »
I don't remember where this chart came from but it gives the various gauges and the size in thousandths of an inch.

  [ Invalid Attachment ]  

 [ Invalid Attachment ]  

 Sorry for two charts but that is how it was downloaded to my computer.

doggoner
"A hand on a gun is better than a cop on the phone," --Jerry Ellis, Oklahoma State House of Representatives.

Online Hank in WV

  • TMA Contributing Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2137
  • Total likes: 182
  • TMA Member: Charter Member #65
Re: Forty Years on the Frontier
« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2020, 06:35:42 PM »
I also got a copy of it but I can't seem to get around to reading it.
Hank in WV
TMA Charter Member #65, exp 4/30/2026
"Much of the social history of the western world over the past three decades has involved replacing what worked with what sounded good. . ." Thomas Sowell