Hardcore frontier types

[Sean McKown]

I think some of what we are talking about here is crossing lines, between "living" back then, and survival.  I think that most of us with the skills we have now, can survive on the short term, no problem.  I also think that we would fare quite well, for the long term also. But we are thinking of it from a modern standpoint.

I am ex military, and have also gone through the 30 day SERE course,  and Ranger school.  30 days of being a POW, or surviving off the land or a combo of that, really tests your mind moreso than your skills.
 A survival sit is just that, survive UNTIL you are found. easy if you  have the skills and proper mindset. even if you are tired and hungry

 LOngterm or living you  be thinking different ly.  Preparing more food, perm source of water, more perm and sturdy shelter or cabin. so you think diferently.  then you could adapt to the demands of society back then.

[ridjrunr]

This is a great discussion.Having just recently acquired my first flint gun ,I had been wondering about using available rocks.Its on my list to do and study.Sir Micheal brings up a good one about the yuppies.I believe the closest they ever get to nature is there house plant really.
But the original question was about how the average enthusiest would manage.Well, thats tough ,whats average? In my very short 1-2 yrs of this,I have met quite a veriety of skill levels.Some only want to go to voo to hang out and relax.Thats it.The other end I guess would be they who have lived this lifestyle there whole life,learning,studying and honing all skills related.Now,the first time I ever made fire with flint and steel was when Charlie and Daisy showed me about two years ago( thanx Charlie)but, on the other hand ,I ran a very profitable and efficient trapline by myself at about 11yrs of age.My only teacher was FFG in the school library.
My guess would be many would fair ok and survive, but perhaps more would not.So much to consider.Again,great topic. ridjrunr

[Captchee]

sean , how long have you been out of that training ? me  its been 17 years / as i said , i could do it once but not now

[KHickam]

Just curious - why would you say you could once but not now?  17 yrs out of SERE - that puts you in your 40s similiar to me - hell we were probably in the military at the same time (course I was USAF not USA)

Do you think it is generational?  The lack of basic skills needed to exist in a less modern world? Granted I am a child of parents that survived the Great Depression (father born 1922 mom born 1925).

I know I spent many hours in the woods and prairies - from the time I was a youngster - I was a serious bird hunter and semi serious big game hunter - I can't remember a season from the time I was 12 to the time I was in my mid 20s that I didn't deer or elk hunt.  I remember lots of days when I would take my shotgun or rifle and hike 7 to 8 miles hunting birds or deer or elk.  I have been out in weather that would be considered very dangerous - hunting.  I fallen through ice and taken a good soaking doing so - course I survived and learned from that.  I remember wading in November around Usk/Cusick in northern Washington setting traps - most times I had waders - but many times I didn't just to experience that as did the mountain men.  Yes, I successfully trapped beaver and muskrat.  

I ride horses hell bent for leather across the prairies every summer chasing dogs when necessary, - dodging badger and prairie dog holes - I never rode a horse until 2003 - but for 5 summers now I spend 4-8 hours a day 3-6 days a week.  This ground (near the Grand River in northcentral SD) was traversed by Glass, Smith, Bridger and the like.

So, I am guessing my experience while different than some - feel that many hardcore or perhaps not so hardcore frontier types on this board or others - probably could do everything necessary to exist in the 18th/19th century - or at least as well as any newbie signing on to a brigade in 1825.

[Sean McKown]

Charles, I think that once you have that knowledge, It never goes away completely. We know it, deep down, and we have lived it.  I think its a whole lot dif for us that it would be for some yuppie(my Br in law for instance) to be watching survivor man or whatever that show is, and thinking that he could do that.

[quigleysharps4570]

I think its a whole lot dif for us that it would be for some yuppie

We would last longer anyway.
I grew up hunting, fishing, trapping and such...and can eat anything, but I wouldn't care to do it out in the elements 24-7 just to survive.

[rollingb]

Sorry I got here late, lightning fried my other computer 2 nights ago.

Here's my opinion of this topic,.....
Most fellas back in the early 1800's signed up to work the trapping fields in whatever capacities the brigade leaders chose for them and largely based on their individual abilities.

Some of those young fellas had apprenticed under someone for the various "trades of the day", and some had no experience at all and just wanted to experience the western adventure and a chance to make their "fortune".

As far as surviveing the wilds of the mountains, let's not forget that those that went west, didn't just get "dumped" there overnight. They had some time to learn many of the needed skills (to survive) as they traveled with more knowledgeable leaders.
I think the initial trip to the mountains for those without experience, could be compared to "basic training" in our modern military services of today. Sure,... more skills were learned as they reached the fur fields, and some of the men learned and became more proficient at those skills then some of their unforunate compadres.

Looking at this topic from a "dietary" view,... the food changed as they traveled across the plains, which gave them thier bellys time to adjust to different foods (espeacialy buffler meat), and I think most of us today, would have little trouble doing the same thing given the same experience.

I have no doubt, that for some, "hunting and shooting" was also learned (for the first time) during their trip west, and they became proficent enough with both skills to have a reasonable chance at survival by the time they reached the fur fields, and I think many of today's youths could do the same thing (within the same time period) given the same opportunities.

We must remember, that the American brigade leaders (back then) were also "mentors" to the inexperienced men in their brigades, and everyday living in the mountains could be (kind'a) compared to today's survival courses, and those that didn't learn, or those that got carelesss, didn't last long.

Are there some of us today "tough enough" to do what those fellas did back then?,.... I have no doubt in my mind, that the answer to that question is a resounding "YES".
Although, my "days" of doing something simular are pretty much over (due to my age and health), I grew up with horses and learned how to take care of'em before I reached my "teens".
Shooting and hunting, just sort'a came "natural" for me at a young age,... and I'm sure many of today's youths can say the same thing.
I've always managed to eat "most anything",... and keep it "down" without any ill effects.
I started trapping when I was in grade school, and checked my trapline as I walked "to and from" school, everyday.
It doesn't take much time at all, to become profiecent "talking sign" (at least for me it didn't take long) and that WAS the universal language of the fur fields (whether a person was a trapper, or, a trader of the early 1800's).

Do I think I could've/would've joined an early 1800's fur trapping brigade (back when I was younger), and would I have been willing to "bet my life" that I could've survived?.... Yeah,...I believe so,.... and I think many other young fellas (of today) would have been capable also.

[Captchee]

Well the reason I say that is while my brain says yes , my body says no,,, LOL
 But in all seriousness
   My primary MOS in the Army was  11B. infantry for those who do not know .
 My basic duty was a LURP  or whats now know as an LRS today  .

 Do I still have the skills , I would like to think so . Though admittedly  and most likely outdated .
Would I be as effective at my age as when I was  20 , nope sorry . Today if im lucky  I could run a mile .
At one time I could run   13 to 20  every morning .
 . Today im lucky to get out of bed in the morning . One wrong move   or sleep a little wrong and im  down for a day or more .
 At 19 I  could go days with little to no  sleep . Spend days and in one case weeks with nothing  but a worn out PRC77  and an almost dead battery strap to my back  and still   grow fangs  and Charlie. Mike .

 Shooting , that I can still do . Just this last weekend I took 1st in the aggregate out  of 133 shooters .   Scoring a 136, 3X out of a possible 150  total score
 At 18 I earned the EIB .  At 19 I  was awarded   by the German  government ,   the Leistungsabzeichen . At  20  my EIB  became a CIB .  
 At 20  LMAO….. I would think nothing of sneaking to within 2 ft of a Sandinista. Then taking a leak in his Taza . Laughing the whole time  because he never even new . Well maybe that’s an exaggeration  but you get the idea
 Today I think twice about  mowing the lawn LOL  
I know my skills and I know my limitations very well  . With full honesty I can tell you  that while the skills may still be between the ears  I lack greatly the mobility and stamina of  my youth .
Hell LMAO  I cant even get into my old BDU’s no less my dress uniform LOL

 I wake up at night, sometimes for no reason  other then  something click in my head . A sound . My wife moves  just so . Some nights I don’t even sleep . When the weather changes , my feet hurt  to the point  my toes will not move .my back gets kinks , my knees  pop in and out .
 My wife and I this July will have been married 19 years .  To this day she doesn’t touch me to wake me up .
 All that from being gung ho . Being all I could be  and more .
 Nope sir , I been there and done that . Its nothing but a thing . But it’s a thing that  I  know full well I could not , would not,  cannot , nor want to ever do again .
 I learned long ago that knowledge without strength is no better then strength without knowledge  . One without the other , will get you to the  very same place
As del Gue would say :  same place as you  Jeremiah ,,hell in the end  

 Now climbing a mountain , finding an old  weathered pine . Sitting under its bows  , feeling its   warmth and listening to the wind . That I can do  and will do tell the day I no longer can walk . Hopefully that’s where they will find me  with a smile on my face.

 but not to long ago ,,, i was a warrior . 200 years ago  i would have stood with my people , of that i have no doubt .but today  nothing feels better then a warm fire and a good smoke  

 

the lord said ; Let there be LRRP's  and the gates of Hell were opened

[KHickam]

So, those  that are hard core frontier types - What motivates you to develop and push those skills?

Is it motivated by challenging yourself  "can I do this." Or more in depth "I really want/love to do this."

[viking-sword]

I'm with you on this Cap, after having read through all the posting I decided to open up a little about myself and where I'm at on this subject. I was born a mountam man and my drive and instincts for it shaped the way I grew up, beside the fact that I started life on an Illinois farm. I hunted and trapped and fished almost since I could walk ,even though everyone in my family couldn't bare to take any kind of life. I ended up living in Wyoming, and now Alaska, and I routinly spent 3 to 6 weeks hunting and existing on my own, quite glad not to see any folks during that time, most times with my rifle, sometimes with just my bow. I don't  pack much, and provide for myself. I'm 47 now, but believe that were I back then, I'd have survived and lived, to this age at least but still would long for some comfort. I dont believe most who survived the mountain life to this age would have chosen to stay living that way into their fifties and sixties. Cap and many others here would have grown up harder, tougher, and more learned back then and maybe, maybe not, accumulated the health issuse they have today, but would most likely have chosen life a little closer to the settlements.
    I'm in mourning at this time, so to speak, as close to twenty years ago or so, I went through three divorces in five years, thought it was gonna kill me, but instead, I packed a chest full of living supplies (traps, powder, etc) up into the Wind rivers, to a place I found long ago, an old Indian burial place, that I doubt anyone will ever find, and buried my cache for the day when I could take no more. My plan was to sell off my whole life, buy horses and a mule and other such things, and disappear. Well, another women found me, sunk her claws in deep she did, and we are still going strong. I know I could still survive, for a time anyway, but hardened as I may still be, I don't know if I would really want too, I certainly no longer need too. In this day and age, finding good water, and enough food without bringing the law down on you, and then staying out of view, would pretty much take all your time time. I realize the time has past that I could ever realize that dream, and I hope everyday that nothing so tragic will ever happen in my life that I would ever consider that way out, yet a part of me still mourns for the loss of that chance, a guy can still dream can't he? I still have you guys and this forum! As for the burial ground? It's real, and will go to the grave with me. As of yet , it's never been found, I'd have heard about it by now if it had, so a secret it must stay. Wes

[Captchee]

So, those  that are hard core frontier types - What motivates you to develop and push those skills?

Is it motivated by challenging yourself  "can I do this." Or more in depth "I really want/love to do this."

 well im not sure i fit your question , but  i am  more hard core them many , yet not as hard core as some .
 for me  i like the mountians a whole lot more then i care for  the majority of people now days .
 i also like History  and being self sufficiant .
 that in itself is  an area that you never stop learning .
 i also  enjoy the study of ma haritage . something i  wantingly neglected  in my youth

 i do my best

[quigleysharps4570]

So, those  that are hard core frontier types

Wouldn't be seeing this thread on a computer...just my opinion.

[Captchee]

:lol:  :lol:  
words of wisdom right there LOL
 but in all fairness , not alot to do with the original question

[quigleysharps4570]

Sorry...couldn't resist that.  

[mario]

In my particular case, I never served in the military. My knowledge came from reading, observing and doing.

Age is a big factor. Hank Jr. said it best in "All My Rowdy Friends have Settled Down." Mileage is my biggest problem...

I'm only 31 and there are things that I can't do as well as I did 10 years ago.

I've lived without electricity, without running water, heated with wood while living on the edge of civilization for pretty long periods (over a year at a time). Ran sled dogs, tromped around period-style at -40F, ate over 5000 calories a day and still lost weight.


Could I do it again? Maybe. But I'd have to work my body back into shape for it and it would be painful.

As Sean touched on earlier, wilderness survival and wilderness living are 2 very different things. That is where most of us in the hobby would differ.

Most could rough it for a few days, maybe a few weeks. But for seasons or years?


Just MHO.

Mario