What the mountain man wore

[Uncle Russ]

Russ,..... We might accidently have got'em "both",.... there were 2 there when I "deleted" the top one,..... what did you see??

I saw one trying to get away...slayed it right on the spot, I did!

Russ...

[Sir Michael]

Puffer,

Son its a good thing you got a sense of humor. :lol:  :lol:

[Captchee]

Now I know "breech clouts" are a darn handy item to wear around water and in hot weather, but I've never seen historical journals or diaries refer to them as characteristicaly worn by the mountaineers.

 off the top of my head  come the  many diaries of corps of discovery .
 Many ,many depictions and information in them
 i believe also  the writings and descriptions  of the Hennery expedition as well as Ashley’s accounts  depict legging and breach clout  even among the brigades. If you were a free trapper  I would think depending on how long you had been out  you would also have soon  become accustom to  wearing a breech cloth or clout     when away from civilazation

[rollingb]

Now I know "breech clouts" are a darn handy item to wear around water and in hot weather, but I've never seen historical journals or diaries refer to them as characteristicaly worn by the mountaineers.

 off the top of my head  come the  many diaries of corps of discovery .
 Many ,many depictions and information in them
 i believe also  the writings and descriptions  of the Hennery expedition as well as Ashley’s accounts  depict legging and breach clout  even among the brigades. If you were a free trapper  I would think depending on how long you had been out  you would also have soon  become accustom to  wearing a breech cloth or clout     when away from civilazation

Captchee,.... Maybe so, but what I've read in "The Journals of Lewis and Clark" by Bernard DeVoto, fails to make any mention of the expedition members wearing "breech cloths",..... I realize this book is a condensed version of the original journals (and lacks sketchs and etc.) so "breech cloths" may very well have been left out as not being important enough to mention.

Also,... I've read "William H. Ashley 1825 Rocky Mountain Papers" several times over the years and failed to notice any mention of "breech cloths" being worn by members of his brigade.

I have no writings with regards to Henry's Expedition, so I don't know if there is any mention of them or not.

Potts, Beall, Drugeon, Ferris, Thomas, Bradbury, Larpenteur, Spalding, Luttig, Russell, Pattie, Ruxton, and Sage,..... also fail to mention trappers wearing breech cloths, unless I've missed it somewhere. (which is entirely possible)

Would you care to share some "quotes" from the resources you have,.... I would appreciate any such information/documentation. (thanks in advance)

[Captchee]

ya i
 Ashley speaks of then being worn crossing the high plains desert here in Idaho “ Snake river plain as well as describing breech cloths being work before and after the  his wreck and loss of cannon along  what is now Owyhee river  .

 the diaries of Lewis and Clark
 description of  Drouillard ,
also note their description of  their Creole engages
to include Drouillard Mcruzatte, Labiche  and Lapage .
 National archives and recourds administration9NARA), recourd group 98 ‘

J Thomas Scharf in  wrote concerning the Creole and French of the  French as late as 1883 :
 their shirts were  mostly of tow blue or striped cotton colored always . their legs were either clad in trousers of tow or else in leather leggings and clout . there was a belt about the waist of leather or variegated worsted, which supported the trousers and which from it  hung their knife , tobacco pouch . feet were cover in deer skin moccasins

 when we get to the issue leather  you would think that by half way through and on their return leather would have been common at least for pants .yet  in 1810 when Drouillard was killed by  the Blackfoot at three forks what did his  estate consist of  when probated in St lois in 1812

7 white shirts
6 vests without sleeves
6 handkerchiefs for neck
3 pair  of pantaloons or Coulottes
2 coats
2 pair socks
2 pair pants of tow
2 flannel shirts
1  handkerchief head
11 cotton shirts
2 pleated coats
1 vest with sleeves
4 shirts of calico
1 shirt cotton
1 pantaloon of cotton
1 night cap
1 mulatto boy
2 hourses

 This is not to say they didn’t use leather because they did as well but anyway back on track here
Sgt Gass account of small boy coming into camp in breech clout , leggings and rob , temp 70 deg below .
 He also accounts  that Indian style garments were easier to make and sew together .
“ the leather garments fashioned by the members themselves included. Shirts. Leggings, moccasins and breechclouts
Mandan village ,  ML ,CD


Moulton journals, vol 3 p.164; vol10p.58, ;vol3 pp270-271
 Some very good information as well a artist renditions can be found in the book
Tailor made , Trail Worn
Army Life ,Clothing, and weapons of the corp. of discovery
 Very informative book on the weapons , Clothes and  day to day encounters of  the  corp

[rollingb]

Thanks Captchee, this will give me some idea of other resource materials to look for, in order to expand on my personal documentation.

Just out of curosity, and beings you mentioned,.... "Army Life ,Clothing, and weapons of the corp. of discovery"

What information is given, in regards to what shoulder-arms was carried by the Corp of Discovery?? (any particular "documentation" of the 1803 Harpers Ferry going west with the Corp.??)

[Sir Michael]

Rollingb,

Read the Who Carried this Weapon Thread in the Clothing Section

[Captchee]

there is 24 pages on the rifles , muskets , fusils  of the corps,even  discussing the weapons  cartridgesand contaners  used

as to the harpers ferry  the show comparisons betwen the 1792  contract and the 1803 harpers ferry

 here is   what they write on the subject
plate #168, An original 1792 contract rifle and a model 1803 harpers ferry rifle shown side by side, showing the discrepancies-and similarities- between the two . this  rare exsample of a 1792 contract rifle is one of five currently known to exsist. it apparently was pulled from an armory during the war of 1812 and retrfitted with a new lock plate dated 1812.
similarly, a selection of model 1792 rifles was probably pulled from the storehouse at harpers ferry for meriwether lewis in 1803 and given new lockplates dated 1803, the harpers ferry model 1803 rifle, shown at the bottom, was produced too late to see service on the liwis &clark expadition

[Puffer]

there is 24 pages on the rifles , muskets , fusils  of the corps,even  discussing the weapons  cartridgesand contaners  used

as to the harpers ferry  the show comparisons betwen the 1792  contract and the 1803 harpers ferry

 here is   what they write on the subject
plate #168, An original 1792 contract rifle and a model 1803 harpers ferry rifle shown side by side, showing the discrepancies-and similarities- between the two . this  rare exsample of a 1792 contract rifle is one of five currently known to exsist. it apparently was pulled from an armory during the war of 1812 and retrfitted with a new lock plate dated 1812.
similarly, a selection of model 1792 rifles was probably pulled from the storehouse at harpers ferry for meriwether lewis in 1803 and given new lockplates dated 1803, the harpers ferry model 1803 rifle, shown at the bottom, was produced too late to see service on the liwis &clark expadition

Captchee, see these "official" sites http://www.army.mil/cmh/LC/The%20Missio ... rifles.htm
http://www.nps.gov/hafe/lewis/photo08-hist.htm

Puffer

[Captchee]

ya i have seen that puffer and its realy  what is being said in the book  .

[rollingb]

similarly, a selection of model 1792 rifles was probably pulled from the storehouse at harpers ferry for meriwether lewis in 1803 and given new lockplates dated 1803, the harpers ferry model 1803 rifle, shown at the bottom, was produced too late to see service on the liwis &clark expadition

That goes along with my thinking too.

[GreyWolf]

One of the best articles on the working clothes of the American Mountaineer - noting that there were differences between the different groups involved in the trans-Mississippi fur trade -  in Book of Buckskinning 7 - by Allen Chronister and Clay Landry. You'll note the emphasis on working since what was worn at rendezvous may very well have been and most likely was at least a bit and maybe more than a bit fancier - especially amongst the free trappers and especially those who had married natives - several primary references to the Mountaineers "looking like Indians".
The article discusses all items being discussed, here including: breech clouts, leather (widely used and mentioned as such in several journals), fur hats, styles of pants, shirts, coats, et al with plenty of primary source notes. IMO this is one of the single best articles on the subject I've seen in my 45 years of studying the trans-Mississippi fur trade for the 1820-1840 period. There is a companion articles in BoB 8 regarding the gear of the trapper by Rex A Norman.

Another major source of info is of course the sketches and prints of Alfred Jacob Miller - albeit this is a single snap shot in time and is the "artist's" view with all the baggage that implies - still all in all a good resource when viewed with the inherent problems involved in cross referencing such artistic works.

Trade lists are of course valuable even invaluable, but one also MUST remember the "when" and the "for who" the items were intended - much was intended for the Natives, who were a much larger market, and not just the Mountaineers. Example: As to when - in the article listed above, it is noted that in the earliest rendezvous lists, that NO completed cloth clothing was taken to rendezvous, only bolts of cloth.

One last thing to remember, seldom mentioned or taken into account, is the weather of the time period. The Little Ice Age which had started in the mid 14th century was still affecting the world's weather during the period up until around 1850. The affects were several including making things generally cooler and wetter.

[BEAVERMAN]

as always, well said Chuck! thanks for the clarifications, Jim

[Sir Michael]

I just ran across the following in Fuller's book The River of the West.

In the spring, when the camp breaks up, the skins which have been used all winter for lodges are cut up to make moccasins: because from their having been thoroughly smoked by the lodge fires they do not shrink in wetting, like raw skins. This is an important quality in a moccasin, as a trapper is almost constantly in the water, and should not his moccasins be smoked they will close upon his feet, in drying, like a vice.  Sometimes after trapping all day, the tired and soaked trapper lies down in his blankets at night, still wet. But by-and-by he is wakened by the pinching of his moccasins, and is obliged to rise and seek the water again to relieve himself of the pain. For the same reason, when spring comes, the trapper is forced to cut off the lower half of his buckskin breeches, and piece them down with blanket legging, which he wears all through the trapping season.

I just thought it was interesting.

[BEAVERMAN]

Michael, come to think of it Ive read something to that effect elsewhere, guess Im getting old, long term loss of any memory!