Leather Leggings

[Ironhand]

I did not question Mario's research and in fact would agree that there is a very high probability that he is correct. I was simply attempting to  point out that the incomplete nature of the available data set does not support stating the findings as an absolute.  

[mario]

Looking at the actual historical record, nope.
Mario

What I find troublesome is this absolute dismissal.

It's not a dismissal. It's an educated answer based on 100s of hours of researching period documents, images, and artifacts.

I was simply attempting to  point out that the incomplete nature of the available data set does not support stating the findings as an absolute.  

 My original statement was "Looking at the historical record..." Using the information available, it's as absolute as it can get. Until something else comes to light.


Think of it as a murder trial. The prosecution brings evidence in the form of affidavits, witnesses, pictures and a gun with fingerprints on it. The defense's position is there is probably evidence somewhere that his client is innocent and you can't make a judgment because we haven't found it yet.

Who would win?

If I used the "shoulda, coulda, woulda" method, I can say that Continental soldiers carried AK-47s. You offer proof other wise. I say, just because you haven't found a mention of it in the historical record, doesn't mean they didn't. They had steel and wood and gunpowder. They could have. You'd probably think I was an idiot.

Mario
PS- Seeing as how this was posted in the Longhunter section, Mark Baker has a huge number of ledger accounts detailing what longhunters working for BWM were drawing from the stores as far as clothing.

[Ppanepinto]

Hold up guys, I was the one that asked the question about the leggings in the first place. I have no problems with any of the post given, it gives me a great place to start my own research, which is the great part about history and this lifestyle we live. I want everyone to know that you have been one of the most helpful group of people I have run in to and that is why I have thrown in the hat with ya'll.  I hope to be here for a long time and to learn from every one of ya'll. The only thing I fear is that this is starting to turn into an argument, and that was not my intention. I asked about leather legging because they seemed to be a little more protective, but now I have a great place to start thanks to Mario. He has done quite a bit of study on this time period and I respect his option.

[Ironhand]

Mario,
You simply phrased your response differently then I would have.

This thread has brought up what I think is an interesting question. Your research clearly indicates that wool was uniformly the preferred material over various regions. Why do you think this occurred?

I find this interesting as I would have expected regional differences based on material availability and local cultures. Do you find regional variations in design or is that fairly uniform as well.

I ask because I am interested in how such details of material culture spread between groups.

[mario]

This thread has brought up what I think is an interesting question. Your research clearly indicates that wool was uniformly the preferred material over various regions. Why do you think this occurred?

It boils down to efficiency of labor as well as practical use.

Leather gets wet: it stretches, takes quite a bit of time to dry and when it does dry, can get a bit stiff (BT seems to have less of the last problem)

Wool gets wet: It doesn't stretch, dries quickly and when it dries, it's the same as before.

Labor involved in getting deerhides, scraping/tanning them and sewing leggings was more than it took to getting deerhides (in the South) or beaver hides (in the North), giving them a scrape and then trading them for cloth. Not to mention that cloth is MUCH easier to work than leather.

Leather has little insulation value in cooler weather. Wool has excellent insulation value, even when wet.

Using the standard of trade for Fort Stanwix, which is an hour away from my house, as an example:

1762
"One stroud of 2 yards long {cost} Two beaver or three dressed buckskins."

So for the amount of deer it took to make 1 1/2 pairs of leggings, you got enough wool to make at least 3 pairs.

I find this interesting as I would have expected regional differences based on material availability and local cultures. Do you find regional variations in design or is that fairly uniform as well.

In my area of study (pre-1783 Great Lakes, Canada and the colonies), the descriptions are virtually identical. Flap about 4 fingers wide, seam along the outside of the leg, snug-fitting, ankle to a hand's width above the thigh.

NOTE: Later on in the South, you see a change in some places to a seam that runs along the front of the leg.


Mario

[rickevans]

Thanks Gents. I appreciate the research and reasoning on this topic. I am considering adding some leggins to my kit and this discourse will help.

[sse]

I want everyone to know that you have been one of the most helpful group of people I have run in to and that is why I have thrown in the hat with ya'll. I hope to be here for a long time...

Thanks for the comment, it is great to have you...

[SAWMA]

This is from the Colonial Williamsburg site, talking mens clothing.

Leggings or Spatterdashes
Since a man's breeches of the 18th century came to just beneath the knee, a covering for the lower leg was useful for warmth and protection. Leggings fully covered the lower leg from a few inches above the knee extending to cover the top of the foot. Spatterdashes covered the leg from the mid-shin to the top of the foot. Made of stout woolen or linen cloth or of leather, leggings and spatterdashes were worn by the sporting gentleman, laboring man, and the military.

[Ppanepinto]

After a long while of being away (working on my Master’s Degree) I’ve come back to working on my kit.  I was thinking about making a pair of the French Gaiters out of leather, or now waterproofed cotton in a brown color, much like the #6016 French and Indian War Gaiters from the C & D Jarnagin Company web site. Buttons would be ether antler or horn, just seeing if I am going in the right direction. Here is a link to the site: http://www.jarnaginco.com/FIcatframe.html

[mario]

After a long while of being away (working on my Master’s Degree) I’ve come back to working on my kit.  I was thinking about making a pair of the French Gaiters out of leather, or now waterproofed cotton in a brown color, much like the #6016 French and Indian War Gaiters from the C & D Jarnagin Company web site. Buttons would be ether antler or horn, just seeing if I am going in the right direction. Here is a link to the site: http://www.jarnaginco.com/FIcatframe.html

First, antler buttons of the style most folks use (where the antler is just sliced into rounds and drilled for attachment) are not 18th century. Horn buttons were darn near everywhere.

Second, the full gaiters are a military item, going out of style by the end of the F&I War. Not likely worn by a civilian "out and about".

Third, I find full gaiters very uncomfortable to wear and put on/take off and a pain to make well. They must be fitted really well or they look like you're wearing half-deflated water wings on your legs.


Mario

[Adam Wetherington]

Yep, And I second the pain the pain in the butt to put on comment.

However, I do really like wearing mine. They are comfortable. Mine are from FLying Canoe I think. You'll need to reinforce the buttons as they come off easily. Especially when trying to button or unbutton them if you don't go give some attention to the threads holding each one in place.