More advice needed

[bluebottle]

Slowly but surely I'm getting my gear together.  Looking at shirts and pants now.  Off white in the pants...here is my question.  Can these be died in a walnut dip?  Would this be out of sorts for the longhunter?

I plan on going hunting in this gear and would like to have more of a woodland tone rather than stand out..here I am look.

Reading up on the longhunter has been fun, finding out how they pushed west into TN and learning about the buffalo and Elk that were in the area...the list goes on lol.  The guys I hunt with think I'm out of my mind.  They talk of new gear, new weapons, new what ever.  They dont get it and I give a tinker damn!  I'm doing what interest me and not them.  Enjoy what I've learned here so far and hope to learn more.  I'll get off the soap box now...just have to vent.

thx for any input.

[Buzzard]

Yes, absolutely; a walnut dye would work, in fact, it's necessary. Even a new pair of breeches would have become soiled very quickly in bygone years. Even off white breeches would have gotten ya scalped purty quick, on the frontier. Blending in with your surroundings is a very good thing. And yes, btw, you are out of your mind. I lost mine several years ago and haven't found a track since. So much fun, so little time!!!!!!!!!

[bluebottle]

" So much fun, so little time!!!!!!!!! "  LOL aint that the truth!

Thanks Buzzard, Already have my stuff from dyeing traps...now the long wait for some nuts to fall.





I take it that it''s no more than dipping and drying or is there something else I need to make sure I do?

[BEAVERMAN]

Read up on a google search for using the nuts, there should be some kind of mordant to help set the color and keep it from washing out or fading fast, ie; Rit dye says to use salt as a  mordant, you should be able to find the info doing a search for walnut dye or natural dyes! good luck!

[greggholmes]

Please see our "Natural Dyeing" instructions for further information.

THE MORDANTS

ALUM (potassium aluminum sulfate) is the most common mordant. If you are not sure what you want to do, mordant with alum, and use the others as additives. Alum does not effect color. It is usually used with cream of tartar, which helps evenness and brightens slightly. Three ounces of alum and one of cream of tartar is a good start; if you have heavy wool, use four ounces of alum. Too much alum makes wool sticky. Alum mordanted wool stores well, wet or dry.

IRON (ferrous sulfate) is called copperas. It will sadden or darken colors, bringing out green shades. Usually wool is dyed BEFORE mordanting with iron. Simmer dye-bath for ½ hour, remove wool, and add ½ ounce of iron and one ounce of cream of tartar to pot. Dissolve thoroughly then re-enter wool. Simmer ½ hour more. Rinse well (remember to cool slowly-see above); too much iron will harden wool and make it streak.

TIN (stannous chloride) blooms or brightens colors, especially reds, oranges and yellows. Almost always used with cream of tartar — ½ ounce tin and 1-2 ounces of cream of tartar for a pound of wool. Simmer for an hour and rinse in soapy water before dyeing. Tin is a good additive mordant. Store wool wet or dry. Too much tin makes wool brittle. It is caustic, be sure to handle carefully and clean up thoroughly.

BLUE VITRIOL (copper sulfate) saddens colors and brings out greens. It is a good additive. Used alone, one ounce will mordant a pound of wool. Rinse fiber well, store wet or dry. Blue vitriol is poisonous.

TANNIC ACID is a good mordant if you want tans or browns, or for cotton or linen (vegetable fibers). One ounce per pound of wool, simmer for an hour. Wool mordanted with tannic acid before dyeing tends to darken with age.

GLAUBER'S SALTS are a leveling agent, not a mordant. Add ½ cup to your dye-bath to prevent streaking. Color will change slightly. Wool dyed to slightly different shades with the same dyestuff can be brought to a more even color with Glauber's salts. Add one cup of Glauber's salts to your dye-bath, dissolve, add soaked wool and simmer for ½ to one hour, until the different shades have blended into uniformity. The final color will be a little duller.

[bluebottle]

Thanks guys for the info, I'll check out the ND instruction page as well.

[mario]

Walnut dying is far from necessary. Deer can't see color and people wore colors in the 1760s. So many rush to the walnut dye. It's just ONE option among several.

" They wear black, white or purple blouses with fringe on their sleaves and collars in Spanish Fashion. Their guns, having rifled barrels five feet long are much too heavy for one to aim well with out support. They have a kind of cartridge box, from which hangs a powder horn and in which is a wooden frame holding twenty-three cartridges"Karl Baurmeister-Adjutant General Major of the Hessian Forces

" best garments were a sort of hunting shirts, loose jackets made of gray linen very common in Carolina" Lafayette

1st Philidelphia County Battalion of the Flying Camp-
Capt Thomas Holme's Company-
Yellow Frock and Trousers Light Colored Frock-yellow breeches
White Frock,leather Breeches, yarn stockings
Purple Frock and rousers
Purple Frock, white jacket, breeches and stockings & a cocked hat
Sept & Oct 1776- Pa. Gazette

Pennsylvania Militia of the Flying Camp 1776
Capt Jacob Faun's Co
Yellow Striped Jacket, striped trousers
Linen Frocks and trousers ( two deserters)
Blue hunting shirt and trousers white coat, leather breeches, half boots

Capt Wm. Roberts co of Riflemen of Bucks County
Yellowish hunting frock and yellowish or white trousers ( worn by three) Sept 1776

Capt Andrew Holmes Co. 1st Batt. of Cumberland County Militia-
Hunting Shirt and leggings of a light lye color, striped jacket, good shoes small brimmed hat Sept 76

"There whole dress is very singular, and not very materially different from that of the Indians; being a hunting shirt, somewhat resembling a waggoner’s frock, ornamented with a great many fringes, tied around the middle with a broad belt, much decorated also…Their hunting or rifle shirts, they have also died in variety of colors, some yellow, others red, some brown, and many wear them quite white” (Smyth 179-180)

General Griffith Rutherford, from North Carolina, wore a Tow hunting shirt, dyed black, and trimmed with white fringe. (Henderson, 266-267)

"At that time if a gentleman could procure a hunting shirt made of good tow linen, and died, black, with a motto across the breast in large white letters, LIBERTY OR DEATH he is fine for anything. In fact our Genl’s hunting shirt was inferior, a dingy colored, ordinary looking one. "


You'd be amazed at how a 230lb man (me) can blend into the woods wearing an undyed/very light tan linen coat, a white shirt and blue leggings (and red/black facepaint, but that's another story).

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I suggest doing some good reading before investing $:

Re-creating the American Longhunter by J. Ruckman is a good start and inexpensive.

The Frontier Rifleman by Richard LaCrosse has a multitude of period quotes, although some of his sketches/conclusions are a bit outdated.

A Pilgrim's Journey by Mark Baker (2 volume set) is also good. But be sure to read BOTH volumes. He corrects some of his earlier theories in the second volume.

The Journal of Nicholas Cresswell is another good one. Cresswell travels for a bit with some hunters and describes their dress and skills (or lack thereof).

Mario

[bluebottle]

Thx for the info Mario but I think I would like the dye.  Just as you or others may like the brights, I like the subdued look.  I did find a gray pullover that I may add to the sack but slowly building for now.  

With what little I had when I started I went out for over nighters and enjoyed it.  The more I read the more interesting it becomes.  Just starting like most I may not be able to get some of the items needed for now but it will come and making some things just gives more pleasure when in the field.  As far as deer hunting I think that it's not so much color as it is breaking up the outline but that's just my 2 cents as others may disagree.  Plus with me wanting to hunt this way in this day and age...a white shirt in the deer woods or some other bright color in the turkey woods is asking for some idiot to sling a round or shot my way even with a Blaze orange cap during deer season lol

Don't get me wrong, I have read and learned a lot from this site and your advise is greatly appreciated and some day I may fall into the grouping of HC.  It shows your passion for what I'm trying to learn but for now I'm just learning and can only be so much HC as finances will allow lol

Thx again for your advice and input.

[bluebottle]

greggholmes, thanks again.  Found this and got some good info indeed.

viewtopic.php?f=21&t=8938&hilit=Natural+Dyeing

I like how those breeches came out.

[mario]

Thx for the info Mario but I think I would like the dye.  Just as you or others may like the brights.

BB,

It's nothing to do with 'liking" any color, it has to do with doing what they did, how they did it.
With a question like...

Would this be out of sorts for the longhunter?

...I figured you were looking for historical info. If that's not the case, they by all means dye away.

BTW- Being HC is cheaper than you think.

Enjoy.

Mario

[bluebottle]

Mario

I did some reading as you advised and like the darker colors (Black and grays) you spoke of.  I like the Hunting Shirt in Osnaburg, and the more I think about it the Hunting frock will cover this.  Was looking at Nutmeg in the Frock.  Would you suggest to get this in canvas or linen?

I want to portray the 1766 time frame when James Smith came into middle and west TN around the Cumberland and Stones River.

As far as foot wear it seems everyone has a different opinions on this subject.  Can you give some guide lines on this for the time period I'm wanting to portray in this area of TN?

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I had posted another Q earlier but after doing some reading I answered it myself so took it down.  I hate to have so many Q but this bug has bitten bad...guess I just got into to much of a hurry.

[mario]

I did some reading as you advised and like the darker colors (Black and grays) you spoke of.  I like the Hunting Shirt in Osnaburg, and the more I think about it the Hunting frock will cover this.  Was looking at Nutmeg in the Frock.  Would you suggest to get this in canvas or linen?

Linen all the way, for 2 reasons. Firstly, it's what was used historically. (BTW-Modern Osnaburg that you find in fabric stores is cotton. Historically, it was a rough linen fabric.)

Secondly, canvas will be way too hot in warm weather, not warm in cold weather and heavy all the year 'round.

As to hunting shirt/hunting frock, they are the same thing. A hunting shirt/hunting frock/rifle shirt is the open fronted, fringed garment that we associate with the Colonial frontier.

Underneath the hunting shirt is just a shirt. If you are in Indian Dress (as noted in Cresswell), you are just wearing a shirt. All descriptions of the hunting shirt mention a garment that is open-fronted.

I want to portray the 1766 time frame when James Smith came into middle and west TN around the Cumberland and Stones River.

Upon his return to the settlements:

"When I came into the settlement my clothes were almost worn out, and the boy had nothing on him that ever was spun. He had buck-skin leggings, mockasons, and a breechclout- a bear-skin dressed with the hair on, which he belted around him, and a raccoon skin cap...[not the Davy Crockett type, BTW]

"I went to a magistrate and obtained a pass, and one of my old acquaintences made me a present of a shirt. I then cast away my old rags, and all the clothes I now had was an old beaver hat [brimmed hat of beaver felt], buck-skin leggings, mockasons, and a new shirt; also an old blanket, which I commonly carried on my back in good weather. Being thus equipped, I marched on, with my white shirt loose..."

James Smith, An Account of the Remarkable Occurances in the Life and Travels of Colonel James Smith

As far as foot wear it seems everyone has a different opinions on this subject.  Can you give some guide lines on this for the time period I'm wanting to portray in this area of TN?

There are options. Period accounts (and account books for those that were hunting for a company) mention mocassins and shoes. There is also a shoepack which some incorrectly associate with the Ft Ligonier mocassin.


Again, the books I mentioned above will probably answer 90% of your questions. If you can only get one, I'd get Ruckman's book. It's less than $15 and covers all the basics.

And in my experience, getting in a hurry in these matters usually ends up quite expensive.

Mario

[bluebottle]

Just ordered it from Jas. Townsand.  $10 to save money in the long run.  Thx

Still may have Q's till it gets here though   .  Working some leather now for a belt bag, made some sacks last night.

[mario]

Just ordered it from Jas. Townsand.  $10 to save money in the long run.  Thx

Still may have Q's till it gets here though   .  Working some leather now for a belt bag, made some sacks last night.

My suggestion is not to make anything until you have more info. That way you aren't making/buying things twice.

Mario

[Bovine Scatoligist]

I tend to go with the walnut dying from the stand point of availability on the frontier of colored dyestuffs. I know they had some available like bloodroot and such but as Doddridge says in his book they would throw their garments and such into the tan vat until the the color of dried leaves. I don't have  my copy in front of me to quote it exactly so if I have it wrong someone please tell me but I'm fairly sure. I portray a longhunter/early pioneer on the far western fringes.In my small mind this makes the most sense. I'm not against wearing colors cause I have a few I'm just trying to place myself into their mindset at that time and place. Again, this is just my opinion. Remember, just have fun doing this hobby to the degree YOU want otherwise it's just another chore.