Diganosing a misbehaving lock. -- ???

[Smokey]

With each pull of the trigger, there is either a flash in the pan OR the pan does not ignite at all. Those two things seem inconsistent with each other.

Out of several tries, the gun may or may not go off.   

The pan DOES open fully. 
I've gone through 3 flints trying to fix the problem.

What are some ADDITIONAL clues I should be looking for, if any, to help me diagnose the problem? 

Thanks.

[RobD]

What firearm, what bore, and what lock?

I should assume these tests weren't done in wet or humid air conditions?

Is the load "compact"?  Meaning the powder is fully down the breech and a touch hole pick will be able to poke into the powder, and the patched ball is well seated on the powder column.

What is the diameter of the touch hole? 

Has the touch hole been picked before dropping the cock on the hammer?  Mandatory at least for starters so that the most amount of chamber powder is available to receive the HEAT from the pan flash.

What pan powder kernel size, how much, and where is it located within the pan?  At best very little powder should be centered in the pan and away from the touch hole.

Is the flint edge sharp and fully at 90* to the hammer and where does the flint edge strike the hammer?

There's more, but the above is a good beginning.

[Smokey]

The gun has been reliable in the past.

The trouble has developed recently and gotten worse.
I've been through multiple flints in various positions trying to diagnose it.

Sometimes the pan does not go off.
Sometimes there is a flash in the pan.
Every few attempts the gun actually fires.

What firearm, what bore, and what lock?

I should assume these tests weren't done in wet or humid air conditions?

Is the load "compact"?  Meaning the powder is fully down the breech and a touch hole pick will be able to poke into the powder, and the patched ball is well seated on the powder column.

What is the diameter of the touch hole? 

Has the touch hole been picked before dropping the cock on the hammer?  Mandatory at least for starters so that the most amount of chamber powder is available to receive the HEAT from the pan flash.

What pan powder kernel size, how much, and where is it located within the pan?  At best very little powder should be centered in the pan and away from the touch hole.

Is the flint edge sharp and fully at 90* to the hammer and where does the flint edge strike the hammer?

There's more, but the above is a good beginning.

[RobD]

The gun has been reliable in the past.

The trouble has developed recently and gotten worse.
I've been through multiple flints in various positions trying to diagnose it.

Sometimes the pan does not go off.
Sometimes there is a flash in the pan.
Every few attempts the gun actually fires.

What firearm, what bore, and what lock?

I should assume these tests weren't done in wet or humid air conditions?

Is the load "compact"?  Meaning the powder is fully down the breech and a touch hole pick will be able to poke into the powder, and the patched ball is well seated on the powder column.

What is the diameter of the touch hole? 

Has the touch hole been picked before dropping the cock on the hammer?  Mandatory at least for starters so that the most amount of chamber powder is available to receive the HEAT from the pan flash.

What pan powder kernel size, how much, and where is it located within the pan?  At best very little powder should be centered in the pan and away from the touch hole.

Is the flint edge sharp and fully at 90* to the hammer and where does the flint edge strike the hammer?

There's more, but the above is a good beginning.

Please answer my questions - they are important -  so that I might be able to help you.

[Smokey]

Thanks, Rob. Private message sent.

[RobD]

Thanks, Rob. Private message sent.

No PM received.

[Smokey]

I think it went to an email address maybe?

[RobD]

I think it went to an email address maybe?

Checked spam and junk, nothing.

Please resend to rob@tradmla.org or rfd@rfd.cc

[Smokey]

I think it went to an email address maybe?

Checked spam and junk, nothing.

Please resend to rob@tradmla.org or rfd@rfd.cc

Sorry, Rob. I resent it as pm, I think.  See if it worked this time.

[waksupi]

Get a breech face scraper, and use it.

[RobD]

Get a breech face scraper, and use it.

Sometimes - actually, too often - the touch hole is misdrilled into the face of the breech plug.  That half diameter trough will quickly fill up with powder residue and require touch hole picking.  During the "build" of a recent Pedersoli Bess "kit" I pulled the breech plug to both anti-seize lube and check its face.  It was not lubed (as expected) and I used Nikal to lube it, and the plug face was deeply scored when the touch hole was drilled ..........

 [ Invalid Attachment ]

Opening up that narrow trough a bit deeper to a wider triangular shape with files will help keep if from accumulating fouling .........

 [ Invalid Attachment ]

[Smokey]

Get a breech face scraper, and use it.

 

[Winter Hawk]

Who made the gun, and the lock?  Are you getting a good shower of sparks into the pan?

If it was reliable before and if it isn't sparking like in the past, i would suspect the frizzen, that the hard face has been worn through which would require either a new one, or.... hoo boy, senioritis strikes again.  Putting it in a closed can packed with leather, then leaving that in a fire for an extended period comes to mind; we had a discussion on this a while back.

Where's Beaverman when you need him???  He had all the answers.   

~Kees~

[RobD]

Not everyone could or would want to do this and will find a qualified gunsmith, but here's some info on case hardening ...

=> Hammer steel ("frizzen") hardness and smooth surface is a must for consistent ignition.  Back in the "old days" there was Kasenit carbon compound to harden frizzens but that has long been removed from the market and is no longer available for purchase.  Current hardening compounds are Tru-Spark (Track of the Wolf) and Surface Hardening Compound (Brownells).

The frizzen is removed from the lock and its FACE (the part that the flint strikes) is ground, abraded, polished SMOOTH and bright - this is a very important step.  The frizzen is held with vise grips whilst a MAP gas torch is directed to the BACK of the frizzen to get it to a bright cherry red, then a layer of carbon compound is spooned onto the FACE of the frizzen.  It will melt into the metal.  Apply as much compound as the face will "soak" in.  When no more compound is absorbed, the frizzen is quenched in automatic transmission fluid (ATF) or plain water (the ATF is best).  The frizzen is cleaned, replaced to the lock, and tested for sparks (or a file test is accomplished - it should glide over the frizzen face as if it was glass and not cut the metal).

[Winter Hawk]

Thanks Rob!
 
~Kees~