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Author Topic: weight variance of cast RBs  (Read 1654 times)

Online KDubs

Re: weight variance of cast RBs
« Reply #15 on: December 29, 2025, 07:56:16 AM »
I'm sure I'll be casting some balls here soon enough.
 I used to weight  mine but I had so many that were either way under or over that more than half of my run had to be recast.  I've since change my lead source but i gave up weighing them .
 I use a lee bottom pour and with what I'm very , well ok,  pretty sure is pure lead .
 I wonder if I can compression pour with that set up , would that work?
Don't see why not.
 Great info here fellas
 Thanks for the video rob.
Kevin
 
 
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USAF Medic 1982-1992  Aim High

Online Rob DiStefano

Re: weight variance of cast RBs
« Reply #16 on: December 29, 2025, 09:32:40 AM »
I'm sure I'll be casting some balls here soon enough.
 I used to weight  mine but I had so many that were either way under or over that more than half of my run had to be recast.  I've since change my lead source but i gave up weighing them .
 I use a lee bottom pour and with what I'm very , well ok,  pretty sure is pure lead .
 I wonder if I can compression pour with that set up , would that work?
Don't see why not.
 Great info here fellas
 Thanks for the video rob.
Kevin

I would say that at least something like compression casting will work with a bottom pour furnace.

Online Salty

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Re: weight variance of cast RBs
« Reply #17 on: December 29, 2025, 10:48:47 AM »
RobD, thank you!
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Online Bigsmoke

Re: weight variance of cast RBs
« Reply #18 on: December 29, 2025, 11:31:40 AM »
Rob, I think that most casting machines utilize the bottom pour method and from what I have seen, they produce good quality projectiles.
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Online Salty

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Re: weight variance of cast RBs
« Reply #19 on: December 29, 2025, 11:49:32 AM »
I know this is going to sound a bit anal but since the weather is not conducive to accurate shooting today I using No Powder's method of weighing and separating the (182.0-182.9) into one container. And the (183.0-183.9) into a separate container.
 Thanks No Powder for an indoor activity. I'll be test shooting to see if there is a difference. Now if I can just get the shooter to factor out of the equation. He needs a stern "talking-to".
We are supposed to be surrounded we're paratroopers
Captain Richard Winters, Bastogne 1944

TMA exp date 12/19/27

Online Rob DiStefano

Re: weight variance of cast RBs
« Reply #20 on: December 29, 2025, 12:06:25 PM »
Rob, I think that most casting machines utilize the bottom pour method and from what I have seen, they produce good quality projectiles.

IME with casting alloy 420-540 grain slicks for long distance BP PPB target guns, either cartridge or percussion - ladle is the usual choice for the best most well cast bullets of that type, where quality is far more important than quantity.  I don't see where most cast bullets are used or required for typical smokeless target applications and those are mostly relegated to the jacketed flavors.  Handgun bullets is where a quantity is needed and that would suit a bottom pour best. 

Offline No Powder

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Re: weight variance of cast RBs
« Reply #21 on: December 29, 2025, 12:37:31 PM »
Well Salty, good luck with your endeavor to eliminate the shooter part of the equation. I've been trying to do that for near about 40 years and haven't succeeded at it yet.


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Online Rob DiStefano

Re: weight variance of cast RBs
« Reply #22 on: December 29, 2025, 09:39:41 PM »
....Now if I can just get the shooter to factor out of the equation. He needs a stern "talking-to".

That's relatively easy with a Lead Sled and a hefty weight (or similar manner of bolting down the gun).


Offline No Powder

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Re: weight variance of cast RBs
« Reply #23 on: December 29, 2025, 10:30:01 PM »
Years ago, when my father would go with me to the range, I'd get my sandbags situated to shoot and he would say "you're not gonna have those bags with you in the woods when you're hunting deer".  A very good point he had. But I still used the bags while shooting when at the range.


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Online Rob DiStefano

Re: weight variance of cast RBs
« Reply #24 on: December 30, 2025, 07:53:20 AM »
Bags or bipods are fine, I use 'em all the time, but none will eliminate the shooter like locking down a gun in a Lead Sled.

Offline Second-rate Marksman

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Re: weight variance of cast RBs
« Reply #25 on: December 31, 2025, 12:45:16 AM »
I'm not a big fan of lead sleds for muzzleloaders, Rob. They're undeniably effective with modern smokeless rifles, but muzzleloaders are a different animal altogether. Over the years I'd heard plenty of stories about cracked stocks caused by lead sled use on traditional guns, and I'll admit-- I used to dismiss them as anecdotal or overblown.

That changed when it happened to me.

I cracked the wrist on my .50 T/C Renegade while shooting nothing more than a square load off of a new Caldwell DFT2. No hot-rodding, no abuse-- just the rigid, unforgiving nature of the sled transferring recoil and stress straight into what was apparently the weakest part of this rifle. Unlike modern rifles, muzzleloaders aren't designed to be locked immobile under recoil, and when they can't move naturally, something has to give.

While lead sleds certainly have their place, I don't believe that place is behind a muzzleloader. I'm not suggesting that using one will inevitably spell the end of a traditional long rifle, but there are enough well-documented horror stories floating around to give any careful shooter pause.

Online Rob DiStefano

Re: weight variance of cast RBs
« Reply #26 on: December 31, 2025, 05:48:23 AM »
Hadn't heard about issues with muzzleloaders and Lead Sleds, or with any manner of "locking down" a muzzleloader testing  I'd done so twice that I can recall, with accuracy testing of several flinter rifles.  But I can see yer point with regards to breakage at the wrist area, which for most well proportioned muzzleloaders is quite a small area.  I will take your experiences under advisement, and thank you!

Offline LongWalker

Re: weight variance of cast RBs
« Reply #27 on: January 03, 2026, 12:59:26 PM »
There's an axiom in precision shooting, "the name of the game is the same" referring to the belief that eliminating variables leads to more consistency.  I'm not arguing that point, but it often ignores the biggest variable in my group sizes: me as a shooter.  I try to control what you can, but I don't want to spend so much time chasing hardware variables that I forget to focus on the shooter.  Practice more.  Dryfire more. 

I started casting using a borrowed .490 mould and a cast-iron ladle heated on a gas stove.  I got occasional fliers--probably me, but I always wondered.  Over the years I got curious about possible flaws affecting accuracy.  For about a decade I had a cast-bullet business (didn't make much money but I learned a lot).  Different people get different results with different techniques; part of this is probably equipment/alloy related.  I'm a bit CDO about casting (CDO is like OCD, but with the letters in the proper order as they should be).  What works for me may or may not work for anyone else.  That's life.   

When doing experiments, breaking in a mould, etc, I use lead from Rotometals to avoid unknown contaminants (while their lead isn't "pure", 99.9% lead is closer to "pure" lead and more consistent than I can salvage from scrap).  I use an IR thermometer to track temps of the mould and lead pot, and a metronome to get my timing right.  I pre-heat the mould on an electric hot pad to get to my starting point, and sometimes use a fan or wet sponge to cool it down when it gets too hot. 

I tend to weigh everything I cast, but usually find little variance.  Pretty consistently, after throwing out the first few balls cast, without taking particular care after a visual inspection I get a range of -.3gr to +.2 gr.  This is with small stuff like .457s or .535s or even .735s.  With care, I can usually cast a run of 100+ 45 caliber bullets for the long-range ML with a range of .1gr (i.e. plus-or-minus .05gr).  But there's a big qualifier here:

I'm not sure it matters.  I've done experiments with long-range round ball shooting (200/300/400 yards) and seen no statistical difference in sizes of multiple 10-shot groups using balls with a .1gr range/a .5gr range/1.5gr range.  At closer range (50 yards) using a heavy scoped test rifle and it's best load fired from sandbags on a bench, I got a >5% difference in group sizes when shooting balls sorted into the same .1gr range/.5gr range/1.5gr range. 

With handguns I did my tests using a Ransom Rest mounted on a concrete base.  My test gun was a Ruger Old Army shooting .457s.  I found no statistical difference in group sizes at 50 yards between the .1gr/.5gr balls, and minor differences (possibly not significant if I had compared enough groups) with the 1.5gr balls. 

The biggest effect of eliminating possible defects was that it gave me confidence in what I was shooting (it also took away the "flaw in the ball" excuse for fliers, but you can't have everything).   

Online Rob DiStefano

Re: weight variance of cast RBs
« Reply #28 on: January 04, 2026, 06:59:47 AM »
Just as arrows are more important than the bow, so are bullets at least as important as the bbl.

Cast projectile weight will be commensurate to its +/- tolerance.  A cast ball is different than a cast bullet/slick in that the later will require a very well defined base for it/them to have consistent accuracy at all distances, along with a non-defective muzzle, and if rifled that needs to be well defined and of proper twist rate.  All of this most notably for long range (as that applies to the firearm and caliber, and its inherent designed usage).

For a muzzleloader cast ball to be as good as it can be for consistent accuracy at all distances it must be of uniform diameter and weight, with no internal voids.  And it must be loaded and remain spherical in shape and not grossly distorted.  Then there is the matter of patch thickness and lubricant ... or paper cartridge build.

Online Rob DiStefano

Re: weight variance of cast RBs
« Reply #29 on: January 04, 2026, 06:26:04 PM »
I'll add, for any cast projectile for "target work" I'll use RotoMetals as either the sole ingredient, or to have tin added for hardness. 

Fluxing the metal in the furnace is important as well as frequent stirring and skimming off the dross.  I use either a small pea sized bit of candle wax or a 1/3 teaspoon of sawdust.

Personally, I find compression casting and dumping the entire ladle contents on the mold to be effective.

Making sure both the molten metal is up to temperature as well as preheating the mold (either on the edge of the furnace or a hot plate) is a major advantage to getting good drops early on.

Timing is important during casting.  An established rhythm helps.  Casting with two molds will allow the just cast mold some seconds to achieve a slight cool down for best results (for me).