FLUXING

[Salty]

A few questions for you experienced LRB casters...

Do you cast with "pure lead?

Do you cast with a bottom pour or a dipper?

Do you flux it?
What do you use for flux?

Do you stir it in and skim from the surface?

If you bottom pour, is it really necessary to flux, mix and skim?


I am trying to get as pure a lead ball as possible. I suspect that impurities in the lead pot affect the weight and accuracy of the ball.

[Bigsmoke]

A few questions for you experienced LRB casters...

Do you cast with "pure lead?

Do you cast with a bottom pour or a dipper?

Do you flux it?
What do you use for flux?

Do you stir it in and skim from the surface?

If you bottom pour, is it really necessary to flux, mix and skim?


I am trying to get as pure a lead ball as possible. I suspect that impurities in the lead pot affect the weight and accuracy of the ball.

1.  Pure lead is all I cast with, as my suppository guns are on a prolonged vacation.  They don't even remember the last time they got exercised.  Besides, my press and my dies have long gone away.

2.  I cast with a dipper as Rob demonstrated.  Never heard it called compression casting, but it makes sense.

3.  Yes, I flux with a dollop of pure beeswax.

4.  Yes, I do stir it in and skim from the surface.  It would be kinda awkward to skim from the bottom.

5.  Never had a bottom pour furnace, so I don't really know the answer.  But I would think that by stirring in the flux, one would catch the crud and it would float to the top.  So, that is what I would do.

6.  No offense here but I think you are trying to overthink the situation.  KISS, my friend, KISS.  Keep It Simple Sir.

My opinions here solely.  Not to be confused with actual facts.  But I think I am pretty close.
I also think that the larger and heavier ball you are casting, the hotter it needs to be.  I remember when I was casting for my 8 bore and 4 bore rifles, I think I was near or over 800 degrees.  It's been a while (maybe 19 years), so that might not be the actual temp I was casting at, but it was far hotter than for my .530's and my minni balls.

John  (Bigsmoke)

[Winter Hawk]

What John said.  Don't over-think it, folks have been casting ball for centuries now.  I started out in 1969 with a mold from Dixie Gun Works, their own which was made from a hair straightener.  Got a Lyman stove top pot and the Lyman dipper, I still have and use them, except for the mold.  Wish they still made those, but they probably used up all the hair straighteners they had.

A suggestion: if you are weighing balls, don't do so individually but do 5 at a time.  If the total weight is reasonably close to what you would expect, consider all 5 good.  If the aggregate is out by 5 grains, then you may want to weigh them individually to find the culprit.  I don't worry about getting them exactly the same.  I am not steady as I was long ago and figure that my swaying might even compensate for any out-of-balance bullets flying out the bore.

Enjoy the process, have fun and go shooting!

~Kees~

[LongWalker]

A few questions for you experienced LRB casters...

Do you cast with "pure lead?

It depends on what I'm shooting.  Most of the time--in revolvers, rifled handguns, and rifles--I cast from Rotometal's pure lead, or large lots of scrap that yields the same weights-for-size and hardness (tested 2 weeks after casting, as some alloys "age-harden"). A couple trips ago back to the old place, I finally remembered to pick up a couple of ingots.  Cuts with a thumbnail, weights for a .535 ball are within .1gr of Rotometal's pure lead, and hardness after 2 weeks is the same as Rotometal.  I'm calling it close enough to pure lead for my purposes.  Only problem is the ingots weight just a hair over 200#, and were a bit of a pain to hoist into the back of my 4x4. 

I usually use a harder alloy in smoothbores--I'll come back to that. 

Do you cast with a bottom pour or a dipper?

Most of the time, bottom pour.  With some moulds I use a dipper.  I have 4-5 dippers.  The Lyman's have the pour holes bored to different diameters.  When I use a ladle I typically do the "inset spout into sprue hole, invert so ladle is one top" method, and larger holes put more lead in the mould faster.   With larger moulds (like my brass .600) the ladle with a larger hole results in greater weight consistency and fewer visual flaws. 

Do you flux it?
What do you use for flux?

Do you stir it in and skim from the surface?

I flux when I add lead; if I'm casting small stuff or using a single cavity mould (so the pot doesn't empty as quickly), I flux every 20-25 minutes.  I use a heaping tablespoon of my Super-Secret-Recipe flux (i.e., whatever sawdust has accumulated in the bottom of my bandsaw since the last time I cleaned it out).  I dump it on top, wait a minute or so for the heat to drive off any residual moisture, then stir it into the lead using a stainless-steel tablespoon (never use your casting ladle to flux).  I scrape the sides and bottom of the pot, and stir in as much air as I can.  Then I use the tablespoon to gather up the dross from the top of the pot and dump it in my scrap can. 

If you bottom pour, is it really necessary to flux, mix and skim?

Only if you want consistent castings.  Once the mould and lead are up to temp, inclusions (dross, contaminants, etc) are major contributors to weight variations. 

I am trying to get as pure a lead ball as possible. I suspect that impurities in the lead pot affect the weight and accuracy of the ball.

Let's go back to the lead I use in smoothbores to discuss this.  Back when I was seriously shooting smoothbore pistols (I had some bizarre idea of trying to compete on the international level), I learned that casting from various alloys (vs nominally "pure" lead) resulted in different diameters as well as different weights.  If pure lead cast out at .650", a harder alloy might cast at .6525", for example.   

My source for most of those alloys was Ye Olde Scrap Yard.  I learned that if I didn't flux enough, the end product would have a consistent diameter but weights might vary as much as 2%.  So I fluxed, and still flux, (because after all how often are we working with metal that isn't at least surface oxidized?). 

[doggoner]

The best advice given here is to FLUX,FLUX and FLUX again. Most any carbon based item will flux your lead pot. Bees wax is very expensive, canning wax is too. I use the wood shavings from my planer. You could use wood chips sold as bedding material for snakes etc or chicken nest lining. The trick is to flux often and stir the pot while fluxing. Skim the ash and you should have a sliver mirror surface on the old lead pot. Good luck with your casting adventures.

doggoner

[No Powder]

From what I'm reading, it doesn't matter what kind of sawdust or shavings you use. Is that correct?

[LongWalker]

From what I'm reading, it doesn't matter what kind of sawdust or shavings you use. Is that correct?

Pretty much.  It has to be DRY, you don't want to risk adding wet sawdust or shavings and getting a visit from the tinsel fairies.

I stick with sawdust from poplar/pine/oak/cherry (but those are the woods I cut the most).  Sticking with the lighter-colored woods makes it easier for me to see if I'm getting woods that I know will mess up my sinuses.  But they all work. 

YMMV, of course.

[No Powder]

Gotcha!!!

[RobD]

A few questions for you experienced LRB casters...

Do you cast with "pure lead?

As "pure" as possible, which will never ever be 100% pure.  For cast ML balls, it won't matter much.  For other cast projectiles specifically for long distance shooting, particularly those that require a bit more hardness by alloying with tin, slick/bullet composition is important.

Do you cast with a bottom pour or a dipper?

NEVER bottom pour - most of us in BPCR will only ladle via "compression casting".

Do you flux it?
What do you use for flux?

YES and YES - DRY wood dust or candle wax.  Anything wet introduced into a pot of molten lead is asking for trouble.

Do you stir it in and skim from the surface?

YES - stir well and then skim off the dross.

If you bottom pour, is it really necessary to flux, mix and skim?

Yes ... but again, I won't ever  use a bottom pour furnace again.


I am trying to get as pure a lead ball as possible. I suspect that impurities in the lead pot affect the weight and accuracy of the ball.

Sure will ... but in reality it's air or dirty lead that'll be the biggest issue.  Compression casting with a ladle is the way to go, at least for me and most BPCR shooters.

[doggoner]

From what I'm reading, it doesn't matter what kind of sawdust or shavings you use. Is that correct?

Pretty much.  It has to be DRY, you don't want to risk adding wet sawdust or shavings and getting a visit from the tinsel fairies.

I stick with sawdust from poplar/pine/oak/cherry (but those are the woods I cut the most).  Sticking with the lighter-colored woods makes it easier for me to see if I'm getting woods that I know will mess up my sinuses.  But they all work. 

YMMV, of course.

The dry part is VERY important!! The tinsel fairy comes with heat you don't want on your person. The wood chips from my planer are free (sort of- I did pay for the wood it comes from.) and they don't have to by thrown away. I also use them in my bee smoker for tending to my bees. Again, good luck in your casting adventures.

P.S If your cast for those other unmentionable type rifles/pistols, One part 50/50 solder added to 9 parts wheel weight lead (clip-on type) will give you a melt very close to Lyman #2 alloy which is the unofficial standard for those unmentionable types.

doggoner

[No Powder]

Thanks guys. I always thought that fluxing would mix all the impurities and lead together and then there wouldn't be anything coming to the top to skim off. Like usual, I must have figured wrong. I use to put a little paraffin or bees wax in, but I believe I'll be fluxing a little more often. I probably have all the round balls I need. But I'll still make some more because I like doing it. Make most of mine with a bag mold, so it takes a little more time. Cutting sprue and smoothing them a bit.

[RobD]

Fluxing either "pure" lead or tin:lead alloy, along with stirring it all up well, will get any impurities (that are lighter than lead) to float up as dross that's to be removed (don't do that with yer ladle, do it with a spoon). 

So far, and after trying a buncha molds where some cost big buck$, the best ball molds for me are by Lee.