Searching for the proper powder charge

[No Powder]

Most everything I've read about black powder claimed it was an inefficient burning powder. And I've read where chonographs cannot detect changes made by adding 1-4 grains of powder. So when working up a load for a rifle, I add or subtract in 5 grain increments. Am I correct in doing this or should I be adding or subtracting in 1-4 grain increments when tweaking a load. Everybody has an opinion, so lets hear what those opinions are.

[KDubs]

Well I've always been told 5 gr increments.
.don't know why 5 gr but that's what I've always heard.
 I'll be doing some Chrono work, hopefully Saturday if the weather holds . Working up a load for my .45 auction gun.
 I'll try small changes and see if my old technology chrony can't tell the difference.
 I recently watched a video by lame beaver and he states BP is only about 45% efficient
Poking around the interweb seems to support that.
Kevin.
 

[Second-rate Marksman]

I'll throw my hat into the ring.

For working up a load, I think your 5-grain increments are perfectly reasonable to start. That'll get you into the "accuracy window" efficiently. Once you find a promising node - say it tightens up at 70 grains - then it can make sense to experiment in 2-3 grain tweaks if you're chasing a competition-level load. But most guns won't show enough difference to justify fussing in 1-grain steps.

Personally, my rule of thumb:

Hunting load development- 5 grain increments all day long.

Match tuning / paper punching- Find the node in 5s, then fine tune in 2-3s if the rifle seems sensitive.

And honestly? With black powder firearms, patch/ball fit and consistent loading technique usually matter more than 2 grains of powder either way.

Then again, you may not want to take advice from someone with the forum handle of "Second-rate Marksman"...

[Rob DiStefano]

"Black Powder" is in the low end of explosives whereas smokeless powders (including BP subs such as Pyrodex, 777, Blackthorn, etc) are not considered "explosives".

When a trad muzzleloader touches off, that's an explosion ... when a smokeless cartridge is fired, that's expanding gas.

[Rob DiStefano]

Eric said it well.  Everything about consistent accuracy is all about consistency of Everything - load components, the process of the load, the bbl and lock, and the brain and trigger finger of the shooter (which usually should be first in this short list).

I do 5 grain graduated load tests as well.

[No Powder]

Thanks for the input fellows. Appreciate your comments and opinions. Kind of interested in Kevin's findings. But Kevin, concentrate on your load work up, and not on what several grains of powder will show on the chronograph.

[Rob DiStefano]

"What powder charge and how to measure it?"  That's always been the big concern.  The more powder used, the less it will matter because of the amount of powder.  Big difference 'tween rifles of .45 bore and a .58 bore ... dittos for the bigger .62 to .75 smoothbores.

Measuring powder via crude volume tools (the ubiquitous small hand held adjustable brass powder measure) is definitely going to not be consistent.  The best consistency will be weighed powder charges.  If used in conjunction with a good lever powder measure the charges will be quite accurate and can be stored in vials. 

I'll add - I hope to do that with paper cartridges in the smoothbores ... those charges will be weighed, not thrown by volume.

IMHO, another important thing to think about when trying to load consistently is powder compression.  This is absolutely critical for PB PPB cartridge builds and is therefore no different for muzzleloader loads.  This is why I "bounce the rod" - when it trampolines up I know that the powder and patched ball are all within a non-adjustable narrow range of compression.  It's a "fixed" compression - so it's non-adjustable, it is what it is.  When I load BP PPB cartridges, I can adjust the powder/wad compression using a die press, and that will have a direct effect on accuracy,

[KDubs]

Right on guys,
 Tom I plan on load development first then maybe some play time with the various grains but right now at 430 am
 It's lightly snowing/ raining
Hopefully it will clear in a few hours so I can shoot.
 On a positive note, I went to a gun show yesterday was able to sell my chief grade northstar west .62 smoothbore.
 So I  bought a new kibler woodsrunner kit in .54 smoothbore with a walnut stock.
 Now I wait......
 
Kevin

[Rob DiStefano]

Of all the Kibler kits I've assembled (Colonial, SMR, Fowler, Woodsrunner - multiples of each) the Woodsrunner is the easiest of Kibler kits to assemble and finish - hard to beat!  The Woodsrunner's slightly shorter length and less weight make it a hunter's dream.

[Rob DiStefano]

In conjunction with a muzzleloader's load for best consistent accuracy is fouling control.  How dirty the bore is after every shot will not be so consistent.  This is why with BPCR match rifles the bore is swabbed between every shot.  Since the bore is fully open from breech to muzzle when the action is opened, a special bore pig or gopher can be used so that in one stroke the bore is wet swabbed and dry cleaned.  Not so for a muzzleloader where the bore is always closed at one end, it will take at least two swabs - one wet, one dry.  Somethings to strongly consider if consistent accuracy is the goal.

[No Powder]

Good luck with your load development Kevin. And I hope the precip stops so you can do your thing. Glad you could sell your gun and even more glad you could fill that void with a new Kibler. Have fun assembling.

[KDubs]

I'm pretty excited about a new gun , more glad I was able to sell the other so quickly, didn't even get out of the parking lot with it
 I promised my bride I'd sell something to pay for the kibler and the good Lord provided.
 Did some shooting today with that auction.45.
 Went from 50-70 with 69 seemingly giving me the best group at 50 yds.
 Why sight in at 50 yds, IDK, it's just where my bench is currently.
 Any ways didn't get any chrony time today so that'll have to wait.
 Still gonna play with load development a little more.
 Kevin

[No Powder]

Just keep shooting at 50 yards Eric. You're wasting your time and material working up an accurate load at 25 yards. Everything will shoot good at 25. But not at 50.

[Bigsmoke]

I've seen a couple of other methods of seating the ball with relative consistent results.
Several years ago, like maybe 25 or so, I bought a rod handle from an outfit in Texas that is probably now defunct.  Anyway, it screws into one end of a brass rod threaded 10-32.  The internal rod goes through the black, powder coated, knurled handle and through a coil spring.  At the top of the rod, there is an Allen screw that sits below the top of the handle.  When the ball is seated one continues pressing down on the handle until the Allen screw starts to protrude.  When you feel it surface, the ball is seated.  The screw can be adjusted in or out to fine tune how set the ball is.

Another slick little device used a short throw slide hammer incorporated  onto the rod.  I guess it works kinda like bouncing the rod, without actually bouncing it.  I am not much of a fan of bouncing a rod or a brass slide hammer for that matter, but it is great for setting a screw when pulling a ball.

Personally, my favorite rod is one I made several years ago.  It is a brass 3/8" rod about 36" long with a lathe turned, cow horn handle held in place by two homemade brass pieces.  I just kinda lean onto the rod once the ball seats and I think I get pretty consistent pressure.

Whatever method you use, trying to get identical results with each loading is the key.