Might this help

[No Powder]

Last flintlock I purchased had been rode hard and put away wet. Bore isn't real bad, but not real good. Accuracy is sufficient for deer hunting. But still, I think it could shoot tighter groups. Thinking about trying several things. Bigsmoke mentioned pressure blow by in Winter Hawks situation. Being my bore is not in perfect condition, I'm wondering if I could be dealing with the same thing. I know there are different things I could do to correct that, if that's the problem. I would like to try loading a fired patch on top of the powder before loading the prb. I generally pick up my patches at the range, so I've got a lot of them. This would be the cheapest solution if it helps. Has anyone ever used old patches on top of the powder? I know I could use wads, thicker patches, larger balls and other things, but cheap is the key word. Appreciate any opinions and suggestions.

[doggoner]

I purchased a "rode hard and put up wet" 50 cal. I used the leather from a discarded recliner and a harbor freight 1/2 inch punch  and the results were amazing. I had some bear grease and lubed the patches will it. Used them over the powder and went from peach basket groups to under 2 inch groups. YMMV. Good luck.

doggoner

[No Powder]

Now that's what I'm talking about. Thanks Dennis.

[Bigsmoke]

FWIW, in testing our big bore rifles, I found that with the "noticeable" powder charges we were using, the patches were totally burned and in tatters after firing.  Seeing as we were making rifles out of shotgun size bores, the idea struck me that lubed cushion wads for shotguns would fit just right in the barrel and protect the patch when fired.
Our results were that the patches could be used over and over.  I did get 4 shots out of a patch and it still looked good.
Noticeable = 200 grains Fg up to .72 caliber, 300 grains Fg for the 8 bore and 400 grains Fg for the 4 bore.
Gee that was some fun shooting.
So, bottom line is regardless of the caliber, if you can fashion some sort of wad to load between the powder and the PRB, you will accomplish three things.
1)  You will seal the powder from burning the patch
2)  You muzzle velocity will increase
3)  When loading, especially with the cushion wads, you wipe the bore before the ball goes down and the fouling greatly decreases.  I once shot a 20+ shot trailwalk with my .69 caliber rifle running 200 grains of Ffg and never wiped the bore.  The last shot loaded as easy as the first.

[No Powder]

More good info. Thanks John. Many would be satisfied with the way it shoots now, but I really think it can do a little better. Looking forward to doing some experimenting at the range. (As soon as mother nature cooperates a little bit).

[KDubs]

Patch over powder is what Idaho lewis recommended in an ancient post.
 I've done it lots of times depending on what gun I'm shooting.
 Some , for whatever reason, seem to have more ragged patches than others.
 It definitely can make a difference.
Kevin

[No Powder]

I thought about Idaho when I was thinking about this. I'm not very good at doing searches and that kind of thing, so I didn't try to look for that info. So, you were reading my mind, and thanks for the information.

[LongWalker]

I frequently shoot originals, and one trick I sometimes use--particularly when there is a lot of breech erosion--is to load the powder, then enough filler to move the patched ball out past the worst of the erosion.  (Doesn't always work--if I did this with my old double I'd have about two inches of filler on top of the powder!)

You can sometimes accomplish the same thing by going to a coarser powder (FFFg to FFg, or even Fg).  To get the same velocity you'll have to use more powder, which moves the seated ball out from the breech. 

[No Powder]

LongWalker, if  I were to use a filler, would the added weight cause a substantial increase in recoil? I have a 54 cal that doesn't seem to rock my boat too bad. I can't believe the filler would increase the recoil more than using 95 grains in that 54.

[No Powder]

Well while at the range shooting my postal targets, I tried the patch on the powder, followed by the prb. Didn't help, but after the patches that was on top of the powder was found torn to pieces, I didn't expect anything less. So I may try using the filler next. Maybe I'll post a picture of the group that I think I could tweak a bit and make it better. Maybe I just shouldn't worry about it.

[LongWalker]

LongWalker, if  I were to use a filler, would the added weight cause a substantial increase in recoil? I have a 54 cal that doesn't seem to rock my boat too bad. I can't believe the filler would increase the recoil more than using 95 grains in that 54.

Saw your post today and had to go dig out my notes. 

Back in 2013 I borrowed an original Dickert for some shooting tests.  The bore was about .49 caliber (slugged .484" across the lands), with about an inch of bad erosion at the breech that over 2" or so gradually transitioned to just being frosted.  When the rifle was later sold, the new owner had it freshed out.  To clean up the breech, the guy who did the work had to take it out to .52 caliber. 

When I shot the rifle with the original bore, I did my test shooting using a charges that averaged around 80 grains FFg depending on powder brand and lot.  Patching was linen lubed with neatsfoot oil, mic'ing .014".  Ball diameter was around .469" (antique mould that didn't cast a perfect sphere).  This left the patched ball in a fairly rough area of the bore, and many of my patches reflected this.

After my original tests I did some fairly extensive shooting of the rifle.  One of the tests was using cream of wheat as a filler to move the ball forward to a smoother area of the bore.  I used a powder flask that threw a dram (~27 grains) of powder to meter the filler.  My notes mention that the POI moved but no change in accuracy, and that the patches generally weren't torn up.  I didn't notice any change in recoil, or I'd have noted it. 

I know how bothersome a rough bore and torn patches can be, but in fairness I should point out that in my original tests with this rifle I averaged ~75% for hits on an IPSC silhouette at 200 yards, and ~50% at 300 yards.  Granted, the rifle shoots better now, but it wasn't too shabby with a rough bore.  (And honestly, I suspect the new crown had more of an effect on accuracy than the bore being freshed.)

[No Powder]

Whatever you do LongWalker, don't lose your notes or your memory. Might have more questions, starting right now.
Went grocery shopping with the wife today, and instead of buying cream of wheat, oatmeal was cheaper and bought some of that. Will that work ? If it won't, I'll eat it.
After trying different things, only changing one item at a time, this is the best I could do. Would you try and tweak it a little bit, or do you think that's about as good as it gets. [ Invalid Attachment ]