Trade Gun Kit

[Detached]

Thinking about doing a Trade Gun. I've looked at Sitting Fox, Track, and Pecatonica. A few more who's names I can't recall. I have experience with Traditions and TC kits.

Who has experience with kits from these suppliers? How did it go? Was it what you expected?

Maybe you like and use a different supplier? Who? Contact info?

What else do I need to know?

I'll need to have the breech installed and most of the metalwork done. Probably have them do the majority of the inletting as well to save time.

Thanks.

[Bigsmoke]

Wondering if North Star West offers a kit on their guns?
I'd look there first, myself.
John

[snake eyes]

I appears that they do. 
snake-eyes  <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/emot-handshake.gif" alt="" title="shake hands" />

[Detached]

Thanks. I was right with you until I got to this:

Our precarved stocks are 90% inletted for the barrel, the lock, and other furniture.

I'm not of a mind to finish inletting 10% of the barrel. The other stuff I don't mind so much, but not that. A shame too, looks like a nice kit.

Anyone else?

[doggoner]

Since you are adverse to inletting etc. why not order one of the North Star guns "in the white"? That way the machine work and inletting is done and the fun part (finish sanding, hand rubbing the oil finish, polishing the metal hardware, etc ) is left for you to do. Most of the "fun" part for you and none of the tedious stuff that requires a lot of tools you may not need otherwise.

doggoner

[Buzzard]

Detached; if your recent to building your own, I'd follow doggoner's advice about a Northstar, "in the white" build. They're a great way to get your feet wet. Also, Northstars gun's typically are noticeably lighter in weight than the others you've noted. My experience with the others kits is their weight. Often coming in at over 8-9lbs. Real clubs in the woods. Frankly, i won't use their kits again. My friend Tater owns an original Curly, Northwest Chiefs grade in 24ga, 42" barrel that weighs 6lb-10oz. Now that's more like it.

[Bigsmoke]

And if I were going to have a flintlock again, and if it were to be a smooth bore, it would for sure be the Chief's grade.
So much more finished in appearance, dog gone near elegant.
I would probably opt for 20 ga and 36" bbl, but that is just me.
That just happens to be another one of them guns that got sold somewhere along the way, and I still wish I hadn't done it.  Darn!!  Just keep on making mistakes.
John

[mario]

My question is what kind of trade gun?

English? French? Dutch?
17th century? 18th century? 19th century?

"Trade gun" can mean 20 different styles.

Mario

[Detached]

My question is what kind of trade gun?

English? French? Dutch?
17th century? 18th century? 19th century?

"Trade gun" can mean 20 different styles.

Mario

For the purposes of this thread, it is irrelevant.

As to the kit, I emailed Northstar and got an invitation to call him direct. Maybe I'll feel better about it after I speak with him. I really don't want to buy in-the-white, I'd like more to do than that. At the same time my head is telling me that inletting the barrel chanel will be a massive drudge. I might be overthinking it.

Nonetheless, the recommendation to look into their kits is spot on, and much appreciated.

[Captchee]

I have built trade guns from all  the makers you listed and NSW as well .
 First  concerning ToW ? What can I say . You pay their price or build the same gun from Pecatonica river ??.
Since Dick makes a lot of the stocks for ToW  your not getting anything more  then a mark up .

Sitting Fox .  Ray makes some  reasonably priced   , entry level assemblies. However , Imo the wood he chooses for the stocks is often. IMO  soft .  Also sometimes the shaping and drilling  is less then desirable . Again in My opinion.
 I would also say that  I often find that there is more  work to get one of Ray’s piece’s proper , then there is on say one of Dics from Pecatonica .

 What can I say about Matt other  then he makes a quality product “Northwest Trade gun “ .
 Unless something has changed ,  all the parts he or his   smiths make .  When he says 90% inlet, it means that the breech areas and tang must be inlet . But that’s the same for any of the  places you listed .

 Negatives. Sadly I must say that one of the worst examples of an “ in the white “ gun I have ever seen  came from NSW  .  Factually I was so taken back  by  it that  I questioned who had actually made it and that for the price  paid, which was very  closed to the finished cost at that time , he should have just let Matt finish the gun,.
 
  That experience is also why I always recommend when  purchasing someone’s “In the White “  to  ask exactly what that means  as the only real constant seems to be that  the parts are inlet . The shape of the stock however apparently can be anything from a board  cut to profile  and the corners knocked off , to a piece that needs minor shaping and finish sanding  to be complete .

 I would also make one last  comment
 

For the purposes of this thread, it is irrelevant.

I would disagree with that . The reason I would disagree is for the exact reasoning Mario stated .
 depending on what you want is going to dictate who I would recommend to make a purchase from
IE .  If the trade gun your looking at isn’t a NW gun , then  there is no reason to mention North Star west
   Their are any number of makers who can make you a gun in the white , that also make a lot of the other trade guns   like the type G , D or C . or for that mater any number of  fowlers  both single and double barrel that also ended up  being refurbished and then sent  out as trade items
 that’s also assuming your asking about a smooth bore  vs. a trade rifle

[Detached]

First  concerning ToW...You pay their price or build the same gun from Pecatonica river...Since Dick makes a lot of the stocks for ToW  your not getting anything more  then a mark up .

Excellent info. I did not know that. I did notice that some of the pictures and descriptions on certain sites seemed to be suspiciously close to one another!

Sitting Fox .  Ray makes some reasonably priced entry level assemblies. However, Imo the wood he chooses for the stocks is often. IMO  soft . Also sometimes the shaping and drilling  is less then desirable . Again in My opinion. I would also say that  I often find that there is more  work to get one of Ray’s piece’s proper then there is on say one of Dics from Pecatonica.

Excellent info, exactly the kind of input I'm looking for!

What can I say about Matt other  then he makes a quality product “Northwest Trade gun “ .
 Unless something has changed ,  all the parts he or his  smiths make .  When he says 90% inlet, it means that the breech areas and tang must be inlet . But that’s the same for any of the  places you listed .

If we're talking breech and tang, then no problem. The description sounds like I'll be inletting the entire length of the barrel. I am going to call him this afternoon and ask some questions.  

Negatives. Sadly I must say that one of the worst examples of an “ in the white “ gun I have ever seen  came from NSW  .  

Ok. At this point an in-the-white assembled gun isn't in the cards, but I will keep it in mind.

I would also make one last  comment

"For the purposes of this thread, it is irrelevant."

I would disagree with that . The reason I would disagree is for the exact reasoning Mario stated .
 depending on what you want is going to dictate who I would recommend to make a purchase from
IE .  If the trade gun your looking at isn’t a NW gun , then  there is no reason to mention North Star west

Well, Mario didn't state that anywhere in his post. He simply wants to know what kind I am going to build. Here's the thing: I asked who makes a decent trade gun kit. All anyone has to do is say "So and so makes one." If it's not what I'm looking for, that's on me. I'll move on to look other places with sincere thanks to the person who provided the info.

Here's what I am not going to do. I am not going to get sucked in to a debate about which gun is proper for my use, which one is historically accurate, etc. etc, ad-nauseum. The question had everything to do with that and nothing to do with who supplies which version. I have made up my mind, and am seeking advice from those with experience building the different kits. You have graciously provided excellent information along those lines, and it is greatly appreciated.

I will most likely end up purchasing from NW, but please keep the suggestions coming. Search engines only go so far!

[Detached]

Just got off the phone with Matt, what a great guy. We discussed things and I'll be building his NW Trade Gun kit. I'm just gonna' suck it up and deal with the barrel inletting. FYI, it is all the way down the stock, not just the tang and breach. He recommended the 20 gauge due to ball availability and weight/balance. We did discuss the Chief's Gun, but he felt the NW was a better fit. Might have to put the Chief's Gun on my bucket list!

Thanks for all the input!

[Riley/MN]

Make sure you take some pictures along the way...

[Captchee]

Unless Matt has changed his way of doing things  in the last couple months  
Ill bet you a donut that the barrel will fit nice and tight . That the breech and tang needs inlet  and that the undelugs need done .
 Now most certainly you could get anal and  continue to inlet the barrel perfectly . But frankly ??

 you going to be able to do the drilling , taping of threads ,  inletting of buttplate , lock , undelugs .......... you not buying a TC or  some traditions here .
 So what made you chose the NW gun  over an earlier English  or French . For that mater why a trade gun over a fowler
Frankly if you had ask ,

Ha , folks im looking and thinking of purchasing a  smoothbore , either a fowler or a trade gun.
 Which do you prefer and who would you recommend .

Matts name would have came up  for the NW gun , but  you would have gotten others as well.might want to have at least ask what other  trade guns were out there .

 but anyway , congrads on your purchase  

[Detached]

It was always going to be the NW! I wanted something that would work for the Old Northwest in the early 1800's. Mario should've known that, it was his recommendation from a previous thread.

Yes. Drilling, tapping, all that is no issue. I have a fairly extensive shop. Mostly woodworking, but some metal. It was never about not being able to, it was about an internal struggle between doing it myself and instant gratification.

DIY won.