couple of questions from a beginner

[bdog]

Hi guys,I'm new to muzzle loaders and here's my questions,I just picked up a TC Hawken percussion .50 cal,I'd like to keep it simple for now,what would be a decent prelubed conical to use and what and how much powder should I use,when people say Pyrodex,does that mean I can use those pellets or should it be loose powder, I'm going after deer with it,great forum ya got here !!!!!

Thanks
Mark (bdog)

[Loyalist Dave]

Well you didn't mention it so I will guess your rifle is in .50.  Your profile does show you're in Canada, so are you talking about going for moose, or just targets?  

T/C makes their own projectiles, as does Buffalo Bullets,..., and there are others as well that come prelubed.  You may need to try several to get a handle on which projectile will work the best.  It's an odd thing about ML rifles, but even those that come off the assembly line back to back may not like identical loads.

If you're not going for Moose or are only doing targets, you might want to try patched round ball.  Conical will give you a heavier kick, with the same powder charge, than will a round ball, and the T/C Hawken has a brass butt plate.  

As for pyrodex, it works well, but why not actual BP?  Is it perhaps due to local availability?  I would suggest you get loose "rifle" powder first..., work up a load, and then see if you can match that in the pellets, IF you really want to go with pellets.  My rifles like 70 grains of powder, but if you are using a .50 you will be limited with pellets to combinations of 50 grains, 60, 80, 90, 100, and such, as the .50 caliber pellets only come in 30 or 50 grain sizes.  For hunting loads most folks combine the pellets, but I think this leads to complication, not simplicity, for I am told you must load a specific end down toward the breech.  (that's just me)  IF you have a .54..., you are limited to 60 or 120 grain loads.

Loose powder also allows you to reduce loads for target shooting, if you find for example that 40 grain loads are good for paper, and if you get used to working with loose powder, you will be able to switch over to BP if a problem occurs and you find yourself using somebody else's powder, and it's the original stuff.  (Assuming you're not going to use max loads).  You'll have the powder measure and be familiar with how to use loose powder.  

I hope this helps.      

LD

[Buzzard]

Well, Bdog, welcome to the forum. Lot's o great people here, and some others as well. Take your pick. T-C guns nearly always shoot their own projectiles best. Maxi-balls are for Elk, Moose, Bear, etc. Maxi-Hunters for deer sized game. Most folks will stay with the T-C recommendations for powders charges. Don't discount using Round Balls for game as well. I can't begin to count the number of large critter's i've killed with them, up to and including Elk. Lot's of knowledge will show up here soon. Your job will be to sort out what you need for your specific situation.  Best regards, Followed by Buzzards

[Gordon H.Kemp]

Welcome to the TMA forums . The TC Hawkens  were never made to ignite the pellets . If its possible to qbtain real black powder in your area I"d reccomend that over the Subs . Pyrodex , Tripple 7 and other s approved for use in the TC Hawkens .Most everone has their pet loads and I"m sure you will soon have much information and opinions to choose from.. If you havn"t yet been informewd NEVER USE ANY AMOUNT of SMOKELESS POWDER in the Hawkens or any other muzzleloader .
         If you do not have a manual with the gun , you can obtain one by calling the service dept' at TC.
good luck and enjoy the great pleasure of Traditioal muzzleloading .

[Firewalker]

Welcome to the TMA. You can go straight to the horses mouth.
Go here and look for Hawken. It gives all the info you will need about your new rifle.
http://www.tcarms.com/manuals/

[bdog]

Ok,looks like I'll be using loose black powder and Maxi-Hunters for starters,what bullet weight would be best for deer ?And what powder would be recommended ?Thanks guys,hope ya don't mind all the questions.

[Bigsmoke]

Howdy,
Welcome to the TMA Forum.  Great place to be.
As has been said, the T/C projectiles probably work the best in TC's.  Start with the medium size they offer, assuming they still make them in three sizes.  Work up a load for that.  For anything over .50 caliber, I prefer Ffg Goex, however, many people life Fffg for 50's.  If you can, try both and see which your rifle prefers.
One thing to keep a watch out for is that with shallow rifled guns, the Maxi Bullets can have a tendency to migrate right out to the end of the barrel.  Then it becomes a bore obstruction.  Not good.  Periodically, drop your rod down the barrel to make sure everything is where it should be.  Not sure how to counteract that problem, except to use real sticky lube.  Thompson Bullet Lube Co. used to make a good, sticky lube, but I don't know if they are even in business anymore.  I know Buffalo Bullet has gone by the wayside.

[Riley/MN]

Ok,looks like I'll be using loose black powder and Maxi-Hunters for starters,what bullet weight would be best for deer ?And what powder would be recommended ?Thanks guys,hope ya don't mind all the questions.

on the loose powder.

I got my friend Gene started with a .50 T/C Hawken that his son had accepted as partial payment for a debt. I fixed it up and got it shootin, but Gene thought that conicals and pellets were the way to go. I talked him into using a PRB after he ran out of his T/C maxi-hunters..... Gene has since dropped half a dozen deer with that little rifle and a 170gr round ball without looking back.

Good luck with your endeavors, and welcome to the TMA!

[bdog]

Thanks for all the replys,I'm off to a good start by coming here, found this site by lurking around Tradrag site and reading a lot of what Captchee had to offer over there,anyway thanks again and I'm sure I'll be punishing you guys with some more questions......

[Trois Castors]

As an owner of a few T/C s a good place to start working
up a deer load in .50 would be a PRB over 80 grains 3F.
                             Good luck!

[Kermit]

Waaaaaay back, I started with a TC too. I eventually switched to RB, but in the beginning I shot conicals 'cuz I had the peculiar notion that they were easier because they didn't use patches. That was wrong.

I shot up the batch of MaxiBullets or whatever TC called them, and then went to Lee REAL bullets. I don't think anyone is selling them precast, so you'd probably need a mold and etc. to use them (someone will prove me wrong on this one).

I found them easier and more accurate than TC's big pills. They stayed put in the bore better too. I seem to recall that they are available in a couple of different weights in each bore size.

I used real BP then, and still do.

[bdog]

Well I took out the TC .50 cal deer hunting no luck but had fun, I was shooting 80grns of FF Goex with a 270 grn Maxi-hunter and CCI caps,the first round I loaded went down the pipe just fine,but after every shot it was a struggle to reload,would PRB reload easier or do I need to swap the barrel after each shot ?

[Loyalist Dave]

OK well you might have to swab the barrel after each shot when using the conicals, for they usually come pre-lubed, and my experience has been that the lube while often advertised that it keeps fouling soft (and probably does), but it also adds to the fouling I have found.  

So..., you might want to try black powder in 3Fg if you are using 2Fg.  80 grains is a good load and 3Fg won't be a problem in your T/C.  It may burn a bit cleaner.

The barrel needs to be completely dry and clean, no residual bore-butter or any other product, which will also mess with the fouling.

Finally, try patched round ball.  Try the patch with saliva, and then with other "lubes".   Round ball in that rifle will work for deer.  (OK well it would "work" for Moose if you were pretty close, but I would use a conical on one of them, myself.., in fact I have used  Maxi-Hunters for Moose myself)

 I use one part beeswax and three parts olive oil, heated, and mixed, and cooled into a grease.  This I use on my hunting patches, and I can get three shots but must swab after that.  Loading the third shot is a chore, so I don't shoot and reload more than the second shot when using that lube.  Otherwise I use saliva, and can get 3-4 shots without worries, and my rifle shoots very well.  Some folks just use a dry patch, and that works for them too.  

LD

[Firewalker]

I recall one time many years back using spit patches I had a ball freeze in the barrel halfway down. I was VERY cold out. I had to pond the shot down the rest of the way.
Now I use grease in the winter.