Question about the inleting on the lock area of flintlock

[Lastmohecken]

Well, it's a long story, and I am about sick over it, so I won't go into it here, totally. But I just received a fowler from Jackie Brown, this is the second try for him to get it right.

The problem I am having right now is, two fold. One the lock very hard to pull to full cock, while in the gun. I suspect that there is interference of of the hole where trip bar goes through, which doesn't allow hardly any free travel past the full cock notch, when you try to cock it. And sometime it will even miss the half cock setting, possibly for the same reason. OK, I could probably remove a little wood and solve that, as the lock seems to work fine, when out of the gun.

Second problem is after I very carefully removed the lock, I noticed that the long finger of wood that runs through the middle of the lock is broken. I know I didn't do it, when I removed it. Anyway, it is broken at the bottom of the strip and is really only held in place at the end towards the barrel. I will move around, so it's almost completely broken out. My question is does that long finger of wood, which seems to be quite fragil, doing any really service in there? Should I try to glue it back, or just remove it?

 On a lock cleaning thread, I though I had read on here before that someone said they had several rifles that the little sliver was gone, and no big deal. I suspect it does support the lock a little in the middle, otherwise why would a builder even struggle with leaving it in there to start with?

The inleting on this gun is not that great to start with, but I am looking for advice, other then sending back, which I may end up doing, anyway, but I have already been down this road once, with Jackie, and well, I just don't know.

[butterchurn]

Can you post a detailed photo?

I had one from Jackie that I had to work on with the same problem.  Put inletting black or candle smoke on the lock inards to see where it is rubbing.  Is the cock perhaps rubbing against the the wood?  mine had that problem as well as sum rubbing of the sear bar.  Not hard to correct once we know exactly where it is rubbing.  Is the pan tight up against the barrel flat?  Mine had that problem too - It wasn't.

[Lastmohecken]

No, the cock is not rubbing against the wood, however, the pan is pretty close, much closer then the first gun Jackie sent me, but it's not nearly as tight as my Rifle from TVM. I know the pan needs to be up against the barrel, or 4f powder will leak out behind it, as I have already  been down that road.

After looking again, I believe that the little finger of wood in the middle was not thinned out enough where it goes between the main spring and the upper recess in the lock. So when I try to cock it, the hook on the mainspring comes up and pushes against the little sliver of wood in that area. I believe at this point that is about all it could be.

And that explains why that little sliver in the middle is broken, because during the cocking process, a lot of pressure would be against it, if it was blocking the travel of the main spring. So the little sliver got broken loose, when the hammer was cocked.

Do you think I should try to thin that sliver and glue it back down, or just remove it and be done with it?

I can't see it doing much, anyway, as the lock is pulled against the front and back, and against the barrel , when the bolt is tightened, assuming the in-letting  will allow the pan area to pull up tight against the barrel.

[BEAVERMAN]

A couple of pics would really help in giving advise on this one

[Lastmohecken]

Maybe, I can post a pic tomorrow. I will try. I have never done it before on here.

[FG1]

I have run into this several times. Where the wood is inlet for the sear would block the forward bottem  part of sear when trigger was pivoting the back end up. So a little more wood removed would remedy it.

[Old Salt]

The inletting has to allow the pan to fit tight against the barrel.  And it has to allow the free movement of all the moving parts.

A stiff pull could be interference on the main spring or tumbler or both.  It also could be the cock rubbing against the outside of the inlet.

The pan needs to fit against the barrel first.  Then all the innards need to fit in the inlet.  Then all the innards need to move freely in the inlet.  Then the cock needs to move freely on the exterior.

Do you have the tools and the skill to completely disasssemble the lock?  It's not hard and goes hand in hand with this ML hobby.

I wouldn't be overly concerned about that sliver of wood.  

Salt

[Osprey]

While the cocking problem doesn't seem difficult to remedy with a bit of wood removal, I'd be very leary of a gunsmith that would send out a gun, twice, that wasn't gone over well enough to be working properly.  If it were me I'd be getting my money back and finding another gun.

[pathfinder]

Don't worry about that sliver of wood. It's cool if you can inlet the lock with it in there,kinda like a right of passage for gun builders. It took me three or four guns before I was able to leave that piece in there.
The pan HAS to fit tight on the barrel and the lock need's to be perpendicular(thank God for spell check!) to the barrel too. Candel soot or any inlet transfer is a must to get a good fit and go SLOW! If the lock fit is good around the plate,only take off wood on the inside where the parts touch while cocking the hammer. Set the lock in before cocking,remove it,look at the transfer,install lock,cock it, and remove wood with new color on it.

[butterchurn]

You have good advice.  You can fix this.

[Captchee]

Couple things . If the sear hole is to high , it will hold the sear out of the notches . It wont make it hard to cock ., it just wont stay cocked
  The only things that will make it hard to cock is if  the wood above the main spring  does not allow the spring to  travel all the way up when at the full cock .
 That little  section of wood is not needed . Sometimes it cant even be left in . just depends on the lock .
 If its broke  then that’s where I would consider looking first .

 Another place is  the block that surrounds the  main lock bolt . If your main spring has a  deep arch to the front of the spring , it can come up and  catch the wood in that area .
 This will cause the spring to break  as again it keeps the spring from bending  where its  should . Basicly at a given point , that arch  is forced to bend  and its not supposed to

 The other is the bottom of the tumbler .. In that area  what happens is the tumbler rubs as you cock it .

 Now in all fairness to Jackie here .
 What can happen is  if he built the gun  in an area with X humidity . Then sends the gun to you and you have 2x X humidity , the  wood will swell alittle . Sometimes enough to bind things up . Same holds true  for the opposite. Sending a gun from 2xX humidity often times  produces  gaps in the inletting around the lock  and sometimes along the barrel , depending on how thin the barrel channel is .
.
 I seriously doubt Jackie would send something out that was rubbing . I know I don’t .
 But I have had customers who  have told me their lock was rubbing . Yet it was not when it left my shop .
 If the wood behind the lock has swelled a little bit, then it will do so proportionately.
 So the sear hole may be just a tade smaller then when it left Jackie . The step that the lock plate rests on will be alittle shallower then when it left Jackie . And that strip of wood under the barrel , center of the lock , will be a tad wider then when it left Jackie .  .

  So take a black felt tip marker and coat the main spring , bottom of the seat arm  and the bottom of the tumbler that you can see .
 Put the lock in  and work the lock . When you take it out you will see where it is rubbing . Remove the wood that’s black  and do the process again . Keep doing that tell you no longer  have an issue .
In the main time DON’T force the lock

[FG1]

Couple things . If the sear hole is to high , it will hold the sear out of the notches . It wont make it hard to cock ., it just wont stay cocked
  The only things that will make it hard to cock is if  the wood above the main spring  does not allow the spring to  travel all the way up when at the full cock . That little  section of wood is not needed . Sometimes it cant even be left in . just depends on the lock .
 If its broke  then that’s where I would consider looking first .

 Another place is  the block that surrounds the  main lock bolt . If your main spring has a  deep arch to the front of the spring , it can come up and  catch the wood in that area .
 This will cause the spring to break  as again it keeps the spring from bending  where its  should . Basicly at a given point , that arch  is forced to bend  and its not supposed to

 The other is the bottom of the tumbler .. In that area  what happens is the tumbler rubs as you cock it .

 Now in all fairness to Jackie here .
 What can happen is  if he built the gun  in an area with X humidity . Then sends the gun to you and you have 2x X humidity , the  wood will swell alittle . Sometimes enough to bind things up . Same holds true  for the opposite. Sending a gun from 2xX humidity often times  produces  gaps in the inletting around the lock  and sometimes along the barrel , depending on how thin the barrel channel is .
.
 I seriously doubt Jackie would send something out that was rubbing . I know I don’t .
 But I have had customers who  have told me their lock was rubbing . Yet it was not when it left my shop .
 If the wood behind the lock has swelled a little bit, then it will do so proportionately.
 So the sear hole may be just a tade smaller then when it left Jackie . The step that the lock plate rests on will be alittle shallower then when it left Jackie . And that strip of wood under the barrel , center of the lock , will be a tad wider then when it left Jackie .  .

  So take a black felt tip marker and coat the main spring , bottom of the seat arm  and the bottom of the tumbler that you can see .
 Put the lock in  and work the lock . When you take it out you will see where it is rubbing . Remove the wood that’s black  and do the process again . Keep doing that tell you no longer  have an issue .
In the main time DON’T force the lock

Cap' on this I will disagree as its not the only thing that will make it hard to cock . As I posted above I have come across several the when inlet the wood directly below the sear nose had not been relieved enough to allow the nose to pivot freely out of  sear engagement in tumbler so when you pulled trigger pushing sear tail up the sear nose was pressing into wood  beneath it to where you would think it was in half cock position but it wasnt. Less than 1/16" of wood makes a heck of a stop.
I have also found those as you have stated .

[butterchurn]

I had a lock on a gun from Captchee that was hard to cock, it even squeeked when cocked. It just needed to be lubricated and it worked wonderfully!  Probably dried out in the cold on its trip to me.

[Captchee]

As I posted above I have come across several the when inlet the wood directly below the sear nose had not been relieved enough to allow the nose to pivot freely out of sear engagement in tumbler so when you pulled trigger pushing sear tail up the sear nose was pressing into wood beneath it to where you would think it was in half cock position but it wasnt. Less than 1/16" of wood makes a heck of a stop.

 yep but the point is , the lock must cock for it to do that .
 thus what your stating will effect the trigger pull  not the cocking of the lock .
 the sear can actualy be inlet not to move  down or up  and the lock will draw fine . it may not drop in the cock notches  or it may not fall . but she will cock

[Lastmohecken]

I want to thank you fellows for the information and advice. I am sure I could probably just remove that sliver in middle, and probably with just a little bit more fittng have it working fine, but I have decided to send it back, along with the first one sent me, 6 months ago, that wasn't right either. There are just too many flaws in workmanship, over all, for the money. If I only had 5 or 600 in one of them, I would just consider it a kit gun and fix everything myself, but for the money I have spent, I just don't think I should have to do that.

I have seen several pictures of nice looking smoothbores by Jackie on here and elsewhere that looked really nice, but then again I have read some not so great stuff over on the Campfire regarding some guns received by others. I guess I am one of the others, and I am giving up.

I am going to get my money back and try elsewhere. Does anyone have a glowing recomendation? I feel pretty good about TVM, as I have an Early Virginia from them, that turned out pretty good. So, I may just get a Fowler or smooth rifle from them.