How many balls?

[greyhunter]

Ok, I've heard the expression, "give em buck and ball boys"! So my question is, how many balls would I use in my .62 smoothie? I have a quantity of 00 and smaller buck I rescued from old shotgun shells. Has anyone here shot 00 from their smoothie and how do you load em? I thought it would be good medicine for close range coyotes, an other sech vermin.  

[mario]

The Continental Army used a single bal with 3 (OO buck +/-) shot behind it.

I've tried a few combinations, but have come to the conclusion that it's mostly hype (at least with my guns).

There is a mention in The ML Caplock Rifle about Canadian Indians using 2 balls in their trade guns for moose and bear hunting in the 1940s.

Mario

[pathfinder]

Three balls seem to be the norm for buck and ball. I've tried more,but it seems it's only good if you want to clear a deck of unwanted boarders! Highly in-accurate.

[greyhunter]

Aww, I wouldn't be needing to clear any decks, so I would only be using the buck shot. So would I still only use 3 #00 buck, or could I use 4. I'll  weigh the little beggars, then I can get a better idea of total grain wgt.  All I know is if I heard an enemy officer tell his men to "give em buck and ball boys" :horse

[Fletcher]

I would think in a .62 that you could use 6 or 7.  I use 9 or 10 - 00 Buck in my 12 ga.

[Loyalist Dave]

Well (iirc) a half dozen were used by Roger's Rangers over top of the ball (wish I had the reference handy) but they were described as "pea sized" which is more like #4 buckshot.  

If you are using 20 gauge, you might want to try #1 buck, or even #4 buck, not 00 buck, as a 12ga or .75 caliber musket has enough room to let all three of the pellets sit adjacent to themselves on top of the ball..., but in a 20 you end up with one riding on top of the other two...., and might deform them quite a bit causing erratic flight.  

LD

[Dphariss]

Ok, I've heard the expression, "give em buck and ball boys"! So my question is, how many balls would I use in my .62 smoothie? I have a quantity of 00 and smaller buck I rescued from old shotgun shells. Has anyone here shot 00 from their smoothie and how do you load em? I thought it would be good medicine for close range coyotes, an other sech vermin.  

Buck and ball for a 20 would likely be a ball and 3 or 4 #4 buck. Its not really a buck shot load. I don't think larger buck will fit the bore right. Larger than #4 will likely stack rather than layer. #1 might work but doubt it.
The US Army used buck and ball in far greater numbers than single ball loads. It was used with the hope it would help overcome the inaccuracy of the SB musket.
It was apparently more effective.
For buckshot in a 20 I would weigh enough to make a 7/8 to 1 ounce load.
They will pattern best with shot that will layer in 3s and 4s per layer laying flat on the over powder wad.
In order to get them stacked right you might load them in a paper tube with sealed ends made of printer paper, load it with the shot so it layers right, fold the top over  then put it down the bore. If the shot is not layered in the bore I think it will tend to blow the pattern. This paper shot sleeve may improve patterns as well. If it can be made to fit in the bore. I have used these for small shot but never buckshot.

Dan

[Captchee]

I would agree that #4 would probably be better then 00 in a 62 .

 I would have to disagree with the hopes of  improving accuracy  though .
 Smoothbores can be highly accurate  ,in trained hands,  at the ranges they were employed.
 This issue wouldn’t have been the musket accuracy  . But one of  weapon efficiency   .

 What was wanted was as much lead down range as possible  when one is volley firing into an apposing force .

 Adding buck and ball would have been a force  magnifier  both at close and longer ranges .

 Basicly  ,  with a British single  line with a 100 man front  being able to volley fire 4 times a minute . 8 times a minute if you deploy a seconding at the ready  with both lines advancing  upon firing . Thats 800 rounds down range a minute .

 Now lets say your facing the same line  of an opposing force .A force capable of sustaining the same rate of fire . But instead of  loading 1 projectile , they are loading 4 .
 That’s 1600 rounds down range  per line, per minute  . X 2  if  the second line is  at the ready and advancing . Thus you have 3200  rounds going into the opposing forces direction per minute .
 Even if  one was to  claim that a 00 ball wouldn’t remove  a soldier from the field . The wound ,if it did not kill them , would still effectively reduce his combat efficiency . IE ability to reload . Thus over all reducing the efficiency of the unit as a whole .
 
 Then when you add in the shock an aww factor. IE the realization  within the opposing force that  4X the amount of projectiles  would be coming their way .

At closer ranges this would have been even more devastating considering the chances of surviving  such a mass fire  would have been far  less .

Anyway , just a thought

[rickevans]

Whilst recouperating from the incident with gravity this summer, I read many, many, many old issues of Muzzleloader magazine and a big stack of Muzzle Blast as well. I recall an article on buck and ball by someone in one of those magazines. As I recall, once loaded with the buck first and the ball on top accuracy (as for what it was intended as stated above) improved greatly. Now just what issue of which magazine I read it in....

[markinmi]

And today ,It's not a very ethical hunting load.It's purpose was to create as much damage up to and including kill upon the enemy.

[Uncle Russ]

Greyhunter, For what it's worth......
"Buck & Ball" is extremely hard to get just right in anything other than a 12 gauge and even then it's "iffy" at best.

I have had some, what one might call "weird" things happen when trying to load this combination...like trying to figure out where the shot went after it left the barrel, to one big ol' hole in the pattern paper.
What I had read would happen didn't happen, and what I had not expected to happen did happen, and on and on.

They say there is nothing to it, thousands of men did it thousands of times, and it is the easiest thing in the world to get this load to behave properly.
I don't want to argue that point, I'm just saying I could never get anything good to happen.

Uncle Russ...

[greyhunter]

I guess what I was asking got lost in the shuffle. I don't want to use buck and ball, only wanted to know what size and how many buck balls I could use in my 20. FYI buckshot only areas for deer are located in southern Pa. I guess the Pa.game commission feels it is ethical to use buck shot. Esp in high population areas (near Philly) And that gentlemen is not my intended use. I just wondered if I was out trekking around and had the chance to shoot a coyote with my smoothie, could I ram down some buckshot and use it to make an ethical kill on a dadblasted, goodfer nothin, chicken stealing, poodle molestin, varmit!   Thank ye kindly for all the ideas.

[Buzzard]

Greyhunter; The correct buckshot load in a 20ga is #4 buck loaded in layers of 4ea, 6 layers deep for a total of 24pcs of shot. Hope this helps

[greyhunter]

That sounds like it oughter do Buzzard! Thank you!

[Buzzard]

Your Welcome Sir!