Your TMA Officers and Board of Directors
Support the TMA! ~ Traditional Muzzleloaders ~ The TMA is here for YOU!
*** JOIN in on the TMA 2024 POSTAL MATCH *** it's FREE for ALL !

For TMA related products, please check out the new TMA Store !

The Flintlock Paper

*** Folk Firearms Collective Videos ***



Author Topic: Really ugly day, but great for "runnin ball" / casting.  (Read 1681 times)

Offline Uncle Russ

  • TMA Contributing Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 7339
  • TMA Founder. Walk softly & carry a big Smoothbore!
  • TMA Member: Founder / Charter Member #004
  • Location: Columbia Basin, Washington State
Really ugly day, but great for "runnin ball" / casting.
« on: November 30, 2017, 03:28:05 PM »
Our weather here in the Pacific Northwest has gone to the dogs for the last few weeks, and today is no better with pouring rain, accompanied by lots of just plain ugly.

Casting some .54 ball and I wanted these to be shinny, almost silver looking.
I recalled back in my BPCR days that I added tin to get this effect, so that is what I did, since I have 14 one pound sticks of 50/50 solder.
19lb pure lead in one lb.ingots, and one stick of 50/50 solder, after a good fluxing should give me .01% Tin in the mix for a nice round, yet very soft ball.
 
I cranked the pot up to 900+ and got started....Man! I do like the NEW Lee RB Molds!
After a good washing in strong detergent, then another in Coleman Fuel (White Gas) and then a good drying with the air-hose and a fresh clean towel....it took me less than 15 minutes to cast over 50 nice shinny lead ball.
And these puppies are shinny!

I always drop my round ball on a damp towel, folded to provide a nice cushion.
Otherwise, dropping on a hard surface at that temperature will sometimes make them out-of-round, and the end effect of that can be ugly.


I also cast a few Mini Ball from the Lyman 575213PH for my .58 'Big Boar' (on the left) along with a few .552 roundball for my .56 smoothie....I am fortunate enough to have an original T/C Mold for my .56 smoothie that is numbered 7355....with the "just right alloy", which includes Wheel Weights, this old Mold will throw an honest .550 round ball...and! I still have the original packaging!
 


Here is over 600 lead 1lb.ingots (on the left) and several other alloys to the right....the picture is a bit old, but you can likely see from this that casting boolits, at one time in my life, was more than just a casual hobby to feed another hobby....it was a whole 'nother life that consumed a lot of my off-duty time. It is also a extremely interesting hobby as the learning process never seems to end.
I have been casting for well over sixty years, going back to the time I was a teenager, back in the 1950's. I cast and loaded for my Dad, and my Grandfather, everything from 45-70,44-40, 30-30, 30 Kreg, to the long obsolete .224 Harvey K-Chuck, all using the old Lyman 310 Tong-Tool and lead pot on a coal fired wood-stove in a shed.
God, what a lovely time in life that was!
 
Of course, having my own Muzzleloader at about age 12 or 13, quite a few round ball were cast too.
I was always told that my old muzzleloader was in .48 caliber...but back in those days I had no way to measure, or check anything, I took everybody's word for it, an did what I was told.
I'd give anything to get that old gun back. Thousands of questions have run through my head about that old gun since the 1950's, questions I'll never get answers to, but that doesn't stop them from popping up in my mind.


Anyway, ugly as it is, it's a great day for casting!
And, as you can well see....it's time to clean that old pot!

Uncle Russ...






It's the many things we don't do that totally sets us apart.
TMA Co-Founder / Charter Member# 4

Offline AxelP

  • TMA Forum Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 451
Re: Really ugly day, but great for "runnin ball" / casting.
« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2017, 03:47:18 PM »
I cast some roundball for my smoothbore fowler during the last camp. I cast about 25 decent ones at the edge of the fire. threw back about 4 because the mould temp was off. Mine were shiny too. And it was an overcast day with a slight drizzle. I worried about getting a splash of water in my lead ladle but it never happened. Hot work by the fire but I was out of roundball for my fowler so it was a needful thing to do. I had two bag moulds leaning on a rock on the edge of the coals so I would swap back and forth. Worked out pretty good. I doubt the critters will worry too much about em.

K

Offline doggoner

  • TMA Contributing Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 148
  • TMA: Supporting Member # 687
  • TMA Member: Membership Expiration; 9/2021
Re: Really ugly day, but great for "runnin ball" / casting.
« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2017, 03:58:25 PM »
Uncle Russ

9#'s of wheel weights and 1# 50/50 solder renders 10#'s of a mix very simular to Lyman #2 casting lead. This formula was printed in an old Lyman manual. I've used this mixture for several years (more than I care to discuss) and have always had good luck with it.  It was used for my unmentional guns and pistols up to 2200 fps with no leading. For my muzzleloaders I use pure lead and get VERY shiny projectiles----- But------ they dull rather quickly as the surface does oxide. It is ugly here today but clear skys are promised for tomarrow. Casting is a great way to pass some time and the results of your efforts are always welcomed by your ball bags. Keep the faith. Sunny skys are going to come and when they do you'll have plenty of projectiles to send down range.

doggoner
"A hand on a gun is better than a cop on the phone," --Jerry Ellis, Oklahoma State House of Representatives.

Online Two Steps

  • TMA Contributing Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 5182
  • TMA Charter Member
  • TMA Member: TMA Charter Member #47 Expires 3/22/23
Re: Really ugly day, but great for "runnin ball" / casting.
« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2017, 04:17:44 PM »
Sure hate it for ya Russ...it was sunny and in the high 60s here today. ::).
If you get the chance...ask your dentist to save all of the lead film from his X-rays.  Most places they have to pay to have them removed.  That little cardboard thingy they stick in your mouth for X-rays has a thin pure lead film inside of it.  It takes a bunch of them to make anything...but they don't cost anything...and that's a good price  :bl th up
Al
Two Steps/Al Bateman
I envy no man that knows more than myself,
and pity them that know less.  (Sir T. Brown)

TMA Charter Member 47

Offline Maven

  • TMA Forum Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 335
  • TMA: Supporting Member #778
  • TMA Member: Expiration date; 10/21/2021
Re: Really ugly day, but great for "runnin ball" / casting.
« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2017, 07:02:13 PM »
All, I think the old T/C anodized Al molds are of excellent quality and too often under appreciated because they aren't [made of] "iron."  In fact, the T/C Maxi-Ball molds are much more dimensionally consistent than those Lyman produced.  As for who actually produced molds for T/C, I think Green Mountain, Lyman, Ohaus, and Shiloh did at one time or another.  And judging by the sprue cutter shape, Ohaus may have actually made them for Green Mountain, which are otherwise clones of the T/C molds.

Russ, I sometimes add a tiny amount of Sn to my otherwise "pure" Pb to reduce surface tension and improve casting (ladle only), but 800 deg. F is all you really need, and even a bit less once the mold is hot.  More heat just depletes the Sn quicker.

Offline Winter Hawk

  • TMA Contributing Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2568
  • Location: Chauncey, OH
Re: Really ugly day, but great for "runnin ball" / casting.
« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2017, 09:57:27 PM »
I recalled back in my BPCR days that I added tin to get this effect, so that is what I did, since I have 14 one pound sticks of 50/50 solder.
19lb pure lead in one lb.ingots, and one stick of 50/50 solder, after a good fluxing should give me .01% Tin in the mix for a nice round, yet very soft ball.
 

Mmmm, let's see.  19 pounds of lead + 1 lb of 50% lead, 50% tin makes 19.5 lb lead with .5 lb. tin for 20 lb total. 

.5 lb. / 20 lb. x 100% = 2.5% tin, so a bit harder than .01% tin.  But if you can scratch it with your thumb nail, it should be soft enough!   :laffing :laffing :laffing

~Kees~
NMLRA Life
"All you need for happiness is a good gun, a good horse and a good wife." - D. Boone
USN June 1962-Nov. 65, USS Philip, DD-498

Dues paid to 02 Jan. 2025

Offline Uncle Russ

  • TMA Contributing Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 7339
  • TMA Founder. Walk softly & carry a big Smoothbore!
  • TMA Member: Founder / Charter Member #004
  • Location: Columbia Basin, Washington State
Re: Really ugly day, but great for "runnin ball" / casting.
« Reply #6 on: December 01, 2017, 02:33:43 AM »
I recalled back in my BPCR days that I added tin to get this effect, so that is what I did, since I have 14 one pound sticks of 50/50 solder.
19lb pure lead in one lb.ingots, and one stick of 50/50 solder, after a good fluxing should give me .01% Tin in the mix for a nice round, yet very soft ball.
 

Mmmm, let's see.  19 pounds of lead + 1 lb of 50% lead, 50% tin makes 19.5 lb lead with .5 lb. tin for 20 lb total. 

.5 lb. / 20 lb. x 100% = 2.5% tin, so a bit harder than .01% tin.  But if you can scratch it with your thumb nail, it should be soft enough!   :laffing :laffing :laffing

~Kees~

I wouldn't dare test an Engineer's math, but I did have my decimal out of place on that .01% mix.

I got that information from a post made by Glenn E.Fryxel a lot of years back, after I had worn out a dozen pencils trying to figure out a proper alloy for good fill-out, without added hardness.
Glen, a well respected writer in the field of cast bullets, once made the suggestion that "a bar of 50-50 fluxed well with 19# pure, should give a nice fill of around 0.1% Tin....now how he arrived at those figures I have no clue.
Still yet, I have used it ever since, especially when I have Minie Ball with a critical skirt, such as the  Parker Hale type, and other loads where a good fill was necessary to get proper formed lube grooves.

Maven, I agree with what you said about the temperature, running that hot for any extended time will deplete the tin.
However, once again with Minies, and certain other unmentionable loads that are real heavy in weight, in fact, any bullet over 275/ 300gr, I like a high temperature to insure a good fill and a more constant weight. I feel that heat, with the extra weight of a bottom pour ladel, will push the air out filling the voids that are often seen when running too cold....you can't really see those voids, but by weighing they show their ugly face.
Pure Lead, plain round ball, up to .58 cal. I like to run mid-range 750*-850*, but for .62 and above I like the melt hot.
I am not even suggesting that hot is better for this purpose, but I am saying, after years of experience doing this very same thing, it simply works well for me.
Many who use bottom pour will likely have a disagreement with that statement, I realize and know that all to well, as it has been a favorite item of 'discussion' since I was knee-high to a Grasshopper, but I have stuck with it because that's what works for me.

I get a lot fewer throw-backs after weighing, when I do take the time to weigh...but I have to admit to weighing less with this method because the RB look and feel perfect....if I see, or even suspect a flaw, it's a really simple matter to put it back in the pot.

Has anyone tried the NEW Lee round ball molds yet?
They are much better vented, and have pin stops....the ball simply "falls" from the Mold.
I have always owned a few Lee Molds, along with most of the other popular brands, and I've never had a lot of problems with them...but the latest 3 I bought are billed as the "New Improved Model" and I've really taken a liken to them, like no other Mold I've ever owned.

I just wish I could get the old Lee "Trash Can" Mold in .50 cal in this new model Mold...that Mold was simply beyond reproach in a fast twist bbl....ugly as death, but outshot everything on the line. It performed really well, even in the 1:48.
I just know it would be great in 1:32 and maybe even better in a 1:26, and a 1:22 could well be "the cat's meow"...after all, it is ALL bearing surface...The Greenhill Formula agrees with that thinking, which makes me wonder how well practical application would turn out.   

It's late night, and this "storm" we're having has not let up all day...Not a real storm, just a ugly storm, screwing things up with its constant sideways rain, damp, cold and miserable.
My friends on the 'other side' of the mountain all have web feet, guess web feet is going to be the new in-thing here in the Basin now.

Uncle Russ...


It's the many things we don't do that totally sets us apart.
TMA Co-Founder / Charter Member# 4

Offline Winter Hawk

  • TMA Contributing Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2568
  • Location: Chauncey, OH
Re: Really ugly day, but great for "runnin ball" / casting.
« Reply #7 on: December 02, 2017, 12:06:58 PM »
Has anyone tried the NEW Lee round ball molds yet?
They are much better vented, and have pin stops....the ball simply "falls" from the Mold.
I have always owned a few Lee Molds, along with most of the other popular brands, and I've never had a lot of problems with them...but the latest 3 I bought are billed as the "New Improved Model" and I've really taken a liken to them, like no other Mold I've ever owned.

Well, it sounds like I just may get a "new, improved" Lee mold when I decide on what the re-bored T-C likes; or rather, what the rifle tells me it likes!   :laffing  Thank you for the report on them.  I was already looking at having to run a screw into a ball and using a drill to even out a new mold.

For what it's worth, I did a search for 50-50 solder and came up with this site as a source:

http://hallmarkmetals.net/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI-KS3h-Hr1wIVWbnACh2x5Q5_EAAYAyAAEgLyhPD_BwE

I don't know what shipping would set you back but they look reasonable!

It seems like some companies make straight lead/tin alloys, while this outfit also has a touch of antimony along with the lead.

~Kees~
NMLRA Life
"All you need for happiness is a good gun, a good horse and a good wife." - D. Boone
USN June 1962-Nov. 65, USS Philip, DD-498

Dues paid to 02 Jan. 2025

Offline AxelP

  • TMA Forum Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 451
Re: Really ugly day, but great for "runnin ball" / casting.
« Reply #8 on: December 06, 2017, 02:36:22 PM »
The balls fall out of my old unimproved Larry Callahan bag mould. ok I sometimes have tap it a little.

Offline Lonewolfe20

  • TMA Forum Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 386
  • TMA Member: Member # 757 Expires 7/25/2020, Member & State Representative.
Re: Really ugly day, but great for "runnin ball" / casting.
« Reply #9 on: December 28, 2017, 11:34:14 PM »
Hey Uncle
What size less pot is that
I think I've been inspired to get one
I seen eBay there is a 20 lb pot not sure how that compares to yours
NRA Member
State Representative for South Dakota, contact me for more SD info
TMA #757

Offline Uncle Russ

  • TMA Contributing Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 7339
  • TMA Founder. Walk softly & carry a big Smoothbore!
  • TMA Member: Founder / Charter Member #004
  • Location: Columbia Basin, Washington State
Re: Really ugly day, but great for "runnin ball" / casting.
« Reply #10 on: December 29, 2017, 01:57:02 AM »
Hey Uncle
What size less pot is that
I think I've been inspired to get one
I seen eBay there is a 20 lb pot not sure how that compares to yours

That is a 20# bottom pour from Lee.
I don't use the bottom pour function as I have long been a ladle guy....actually the RCBS bottom pour ladle.
Once everything is up to temp, molds, smelt, and ladle, and I can get my timing / rhythm just right, I can turn out a whole passel of roundball in a about an hour...

There are certainly more spendy units around but I have to wonder at times if they are really worth the extra money.
I own a lot of high dollar molds, Lyman, RCBS, SAECO, and several custom molds,
If they throw a better bullet, or a better round ball, I am just not astute enough to see it, however  I still enjoy using these so-called "better" mold.

If Lee had made the mold in the size & weight I wanted, when I wanted it, and when I needed it, there's a very high probability that I would not have as many hi-dollar molds....they're that good.

Uncle Russ...





















































































 
It's the many things we don't do that totally sets us apart.
TMA Co-Founder / Charter Member# 4

Offline Uncle Russ

  • TMA Contributing Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 7339
  • TMA Founder. Walk softly & carry a big Smoothbore!
  • TMA Member: Founder / Charter Member #004
  • Location: Columbia Basin, Washington State
Re: Really ugly day, but great for "runnin ball" / casting.
« Reply #11 on: December 29, 2017, 04:26:39 PM »
How in the heck did that big long "tail" on my post happen.

I can't seem to get rid of it  :Doh!

Uncle Russ
It's the many things we don't do that totally sets us apart.
TMA Co-Founder / Charter Member# 4

Offline Ohio Joe

  • TMA BoD
  • ****
  • Posts: 7660
  • TMA Founder / Charter Member# 8
  • TMA Member: Founder
  • Location: Nebraska
Re: Really ugly day, but great for "runnin ball" / casting.
« Reply #12 on: December 29, 2017, 04:46:32 PM »
I don't know Russ, but I just about tripped over it...  :lol sign
Chadron Fur Trade Days Rendezvous / "Ol' Candle Snuffer"
"Museum of the Fur Trade" Chadron, Nebraska

Offline Uncle Russ

  • TMA Contributing Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 7339
  • TMA Founder. Walk softly & carry a big Smoothbore!
  • TMA Member: Founder / Charter Member #004
  • Location: Columbia Basin, Washington State
Re: Really ugly day, but great for "runnin ball" / casting.
« Reply #13 on: December 29, 2017, 05:22:38 PM »
I don't know Russ, but I just about tripped over it...  :lol sign

 :laffing   :bl th up :applaud  :lol sign

Geeeesh!  :pray:

Russ...
It's the many things we don't do that totally sets us apart.
TMA Co-Founder / Charter Member# 4

Offline Hawken

  • TMA Forum Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 472
  • "A man's WORD....is his total value!"
  • TMA Member: TMA Member #802 Expiration 05-04-2021
  • Location: LA
Re: Really ugly day, but great for "runnin ball" / casting.
« Reply #14 on: June 12, 2018, 11:07:52 AM »
I was in BPCR for over 20 years and man....is it a relief to be free from all that work!! :hairy

Now I can do all my shooting out of a shooting bag! :toast
"There ain't no freedom...without gunpowder!"