Options for a reliable, relatively inexpensive first flintlock

[Winter Hawk]

I'm going to go along with Bigsmoke on this one, up to a point.  I suggest their Mountain Rifle.  The Traditions rifles are good, solid guns.  They took over where CVA left off, importing them from Spain.  They are better than what CVA was selling and the price is, for this day & age, not extravagant.  The locks spark well and the build isn't difficult.
https://www.deercreekproducts.net/store/p1365/Traditions_Mountain_Kit_Rifle_.50_Cal__Flintlock_-_G59208.html
Eric Bye said good things about CVA in "Flintlocks - A Practical Guide" and that would carry over to Traditions also.
My Hodgepodge rifle started out as a CVA Mountain Rifle kit, which I have modified quite a bit (sometimes not for the better) over the years.
~Kees~

[rodentrancher]

Many thanks for the information y'all have offered. I've had no luck yet finding a Lyman GPR in good condition at an acceptable price, but I did come across this interesting item on GB:

"Very nice little rifle from an unknown maker. The barrel is a 28" long Green Mountain with Thompson Center adjustable sights. Bore has 1-66" deep cut rifling for patched round ball, bore is shiny bright with no rust or pitting. The lock and triggers are also Thompson Center and work great. Flint lock sparks well. Stock is curly Maple with a very nice pattern and in excellent condition showing almost no wear."

Looking at the sellers' profile, he only seems to sell muzzleloaders, and he doesn't hesitate to identify some of his other items as having dark and/or pitted bores - builds some confidence that this rifle is as described.

Could be promising as a fairly inexpensive way to try out flintlocks and still get one with a reliable lock, if the bidding doesn't go crazy.

I gather from some comments here that y'all think well of the TC locks?

[Nessmuk]

I personally know the Seller and can vouch for his honesty and trustworthiness.  T?C locks have withstood the test of time, not the best or fastest but damn good. I own two Thompson Center flintlocks both are over 35 years old and have the original locks.

[rodentrancher]

Great information Nessmuk, thank you!

[Winter Hawk]

Some of the older T-C locks had issues, mostly from the geometry of the cock and frizzen.  They were redesigned and the newer ones are more reliable.  That said, I have had a couple of T-C rifles with the old style locks which worked well.  The one I have now I changed out the frizzen for one for the Lyman lock which gives an impressive spark.  I would put in a bid, knowing that a new cock and frizzen are available from the Gunworks Muzzleloading Emporium (https://thegunworks.com/) or L&R makes a replacement lock which I know Bigsmoke may have available.

~Kees~

[Bigsmoke]

Indeed I do, Winter Hawk.
It is used, but not much.  I've had it what, Kees, maybe 3 years?  And in that time, I have maybe put 100 shots down the barrel.  So, not much use from me.
It's now a percussion gun and I like it much better that way. 
So, what to do with the L & R lock?  I guess maybe I should sell it.  So, check out the Trade Blanket section of the forum.
John

PS:  Actually, I did just sell it and it was delivered today via USPS.  12/14/23

[rodentrancher]

A question for those of you who like the Lyman Great Plains, now discontinued - I've seen people say that the Lyman GP was actually made by Investarms for Lyman. I've seen others say that they were made by Pedersoli. Both Investarms and Pedersoli still sell "Plains Hawkens" flintlock rifles. Any experience/opinions with either of these?

[rollingb]

A question for those of you who like the Lyman Great Plains, now discontinued - I've seen people say that the Lyman GP was actually made by Investarms for Lyman. I've seen others say that they were made by Pedersoli. Both Investarms and Pedersoli still sell "Plains Hawkens" flintlock rifles. Any experience/opinions with either of these?

If I can get my memory working (some what properly). Investarms made the Great Plains Rifle FOR Lyman (starting back in the 1960's IIRC) and I almost bought a GPR "kit" in 1969 when they were retailing for around $100.00, but opted for a CVA Mountain Rifle "kit" (from Spain) instead because it was $20.00 cheaper.

When Lyman discontinued the GPR line, Pedersoli started to produce a SIMILAR muzzleloader in PERCUSSION (but of more historically correct design) at nearly twice the price.

It sadly appears that offerings of traditional style muzzleloaders from both Italian import companies (Lyman, and Pedersoli) are in a downward spiral for the foreseeable future . 

If you are looking for either rifle, you'll probably have to buy a used one. 

[Winter Hawk]

I'll chime in here.  I bought my first Lyman GPR in 1992 for about $250 and it was made by Investarms.  i don't remember when they started offering them, the mid 1980s I think.  Rondo may be thinking of CVA versus Thompson-Center as Lyman didn't have the GPR available in 1969 that I know of.
Lyman continued importing from Investarms but in 2020 they also started importing the same rifle made by Pedersolli as a deluxe version for a higher price.  A year or so later the Investarms was out the window and now they aren't importing any muzzleloaders.
http://tradmla.org/tmaf/index.php?topic=23888.msg224223#msg224223

I'm going by memory now so may be totally off base here. 

~Kees~

[rodentrancher]

Prices for used TC and Lyman flintlocks in good shape on GunBroker seem to be running around $700-800 now - more than the current Investarms model and almost in the range of the Pedersoli. So if the current production from the Italian makers is as good as the old Lyman Great Plains, a new reproduction rifle might be the way to go.

Or maybe I should work my courage up and attempt a Kibler kit.

Thanks for listening to me dither . . .

[rollingb]

What's happening to traditional muzzleloaders today.

[Nessmuk]

He is ABSOLUTELY RIGHT!!

[Ohio Joe]

The TMA was founded on this very principle of; "only traditional muzzleloading firearms should be used in the (at that time) "traditional" muzzleloading hunting seasons... We all know that "big tech" won out in the end, simply because the Game & Parks Hunting Division's were (and are) all about selling hunting permits... Money was the bottom line, not the ethics of the hunt...

[dmarsh]

Prices for used TC and Lyman flintlocks in good shape on GunBroker seem to be running around $700-800 now - more than the current Investarms model and almost in the range of the Pedersoli. So if the current production from the Italian makers is as good as the old Lyman Great Plains, a new reproduction rifle might be the way to go.

Or maybe I should work my courage up and attempt a Kibler kit.

Thanks for listening to me dither . . .

Yes, order a Kibler and you will never regret it. Quality works wonders in the field.   If I can put two together anyone can.