old barrel

[ridjrunr]

This question concerns whether or not using an oil with a detergent, like ATF to soak a barrel with( pour it full in the bore), would in any way harm the barrel, or the finish on the barrel. THat is if of course the barrel is out of the stock.I have done this on an old cruddy jukar barrel and it worked great( it dissolved the rust great).But,....how about a gun that is say 140 yrs old w/ a stuck nipple and a dirty bore that looks as though it may clean up.?Also, what might one expect for a thread size for the nipple on such a gun.Thanx for any help,ridjrunr

[Captchee]

MMM ? good question . the barrel should be  iron or iron welded if its that old .
 the oil itself  wont hurt it but the real question would be the detergents.
 Frankly I have never thought about it dan . On one hand it should hurt anything . But on the other had  the detergents are going to go where the oil does  so what will they do to Iron or  early types of steel .

 Frankly I am thinking you would be ok . I have used about anything and everything to get corrosion out of old barrels  to include , red devil and even automotive rust removers   . But I have never thought about ATF before ?
 Frankly I just don’t know . Good question , lets see what folks say

[Stryker]

ridjrunr,
I use a homemade concoction called Ed's Red and it contains ATF. The "recipe" is very simple. It is equal parts ATF (Dexron 3), Deodorized kerosene, Acetone and Aliphatic Mineral Spirits. I bought a quart of each and an new empty paint thinner can at the hardware store and just poured everything into the paint thinner can. You don't need a paint thinner can, but what ever you use just make sure it seals tight.

I found out about this stuff when I was into milsurp rifles. I have cleaned up some of the nastiest rifles with this stuff to where the bore shines again. I mix up just some of the ATF and Kerosene and keep it in an old CLP bottle for a gun oil. I even use it on my flinters. After I clean with water, and dry the bore I run a couple of lightly lubed patches down the bore. I think it works great.

[ridjrunr]

ok,thanx guys.I figured it would probably be ok but wanted another opinion.Now I need to get brave enough to drive the pin out and get the barrel off the stock.Hopefully when I start tapping the pin, I'll see it moving out the other side and not bending!!Shoould be ok.How about the nipple thread size?  ridjrunr

[Gambia]

Question
What type of barrel is it a rifle or smoothbore ,is it American or European .
Feltwad
A Flint Lock will not secure a chicken house door

[ridjrunr]

It is an oct. swamped,42"x.36,1/2 stock,(Ohio?),iron trim except pewter cap at rr entry pt. Another reason I want to pull barrel is to see if there is anything scribed on underside of barrel.It has a Golcher cap lock.  ridjrunr

[Gambia]

For a job like this my personal view is though some will disagree for a rifle providing the walls are thick is to have the rifling freshed {recut}.Detergents may be OK on a light rust but if the lands are deep pitted then it would have to be a recut.The same is for a smoothbore I always lap out this type of barrel using oil and carborundum stone on a honing machine.
Feltwad

A Flint Lock will not secure a chicken house door

[ridjrunr]

Well,it may come to that but first I want to see how she cleans up.I'm hopin it supprises me but we'll see.Does anyone on the TMA refresh or reline barrels if I go that route?I'm thinkin after the atf soaking I'd scrub with 0000 steel wool on a brass brush.Then clean with boiling soapy water and dry.Would that be too agressive?    ridjrunr

[cb]

the barrel should be iron or iron welded if its that old

Not necessarily - cast aka crucible steel barrels, which were drilled from solid bar stock, started becoming popular in the 1830's and were widely used by the 1860's. By the 1860's the Bessemer process for making steel made it much more widely available and generally replaced WI, but although WI continued to be made and used up through the 1930's, it was used less for firearms, and was more often used in construction projects in the latter days due to it's rust resistance.

But on the other had the detergents are going to go where the oil does so what will they do to Iron or early types of steel .

FWIW - The atomic structure of iron and simple steel (iron and steel are not made up of molecules but are rather a crystal lattice structure), whether made today, 140 years ago, or 1,500 years ago are not all that much different.
The base of both iron and steel is ferrite - generally the only real difference between wrought iron as used for barrels up until the mid-19th century and the simple steels of then (or today - todays 10XX series steel makes a good substitute for the steels of the past since it is a simple steel like made then) is the carbon content and the fact that WI usually has a fairly high silicate content due to the manufacturing methods of the day.
Despite "common" knowledge WI can and often does have carbon at levels similar to mild steel (.1 to .4%). The thing that really separates the two is the "stringy" structure of WI due to the silcate inclusions. One source of the silcate inclusions was sand which was often used as a flux during the processing of WI.
Refine WI by heating and beating or by burning off the impurities (such as when making puddle iron or by forging) and it's not much different structurally than mild steel of similar carbon content.
Even todays more exotic alloyed steels generally have no more  than 5-10% alloying agents added to the basic ferrite.
Actually pure iron, ferrite, is in fact quite rare outside of labs - even the so-called plain steels and irons of the past often had naturally occurring alloying agents such as manganese which aids in hardening or copper. Other "agents" could/would be added during processing such as carbon and sulphur (from the coal). Sulphur is not a good thing and was one of the "problems" with old steels and irons.

I'd just use the brass brush and hold off on the 4/0 steel wool until you see what you have. Another less abrasive option is the nylon scrub pads.

Regarding driving out the pin - pins can be tapered so if it seems tight coming out in one direction try the other before getting too aggressive.

[Captchee]

good post CB , thanks .

 basicly however what i was thinking is iron or Damascus barrel   have large enough  pours that they  season . Today’s  commonly used barrel steel  IMO does not .
 Not that we would be worried about taking out any seasoning on these barrels . But the point is that  where seasoning would go , so would  the  ATF and detergent.
 So I think the real question would be  will the detergent effect the old original barrels any  .

 I know from experience that  red devil rust remover will  in just a minute or two  so the pattern of  Damascus  in a bore . This isn’t a problem because the bore is  polished out . But I wouldn’t want to leave it set in a bore for a week or so .
 I also know that with the different ATF out there , that some are not compatible with  different components .  For instance you cant used F  in  GM products ,  its designed for Ford  transmissions .   This is not only because of the seals  but also the pistons within the trany .
 Its not the oil , it’s the detergent that  im thinking  might cause an issue if  there would be one .
 I can tell you this much , it will clean out and polish caste engine block like no tomorrow.
 Before the days of anti carbon and sludge oils , we used to put I  quart  of ATF in with the engine oil  .
 Open that puppy up a year later and  she  would look like someone went through with a polishing buffer .
 Same thing with water pumps . If we had one that was starting to lose a bearing  and squeal .  Dump a quart of AFT into the radiator .
She would stop squealing and  it would clean out the brass cores  of the radiator all at the same time .
 I hear though you shouldn’t do that with today radiators  not only because the tanks are plastic bit the cores are a  different type of aluminum and the ATF effects it  .
So again , the only concern I would have would  be on what the detergents would do to the barrel . Would it etch it as it cleaned  and if so  as it worked its way into the pours of the barrel  would it , could it attack it there