Accuracy and lock time?

[Ohio Joe]

Is the lock time on a flintlock ie: Time of actual ignition, as fast as a caplock?

The reason I am asking is accuracy, obviously, I hope,(I have seen a lot of pre-conceived ideas shot down lately). That a faster lock time equates to a more accurate shot. (Less waddle time while the ball is in the barrel).

So what are you gentleman's experiences in this area. Are flintlocks by in large as accurate as caplocks if loaded correctly?

[Captchee]

man mike , i dint see any one calling you those things lol  :lol: .. i would agree that it depends alot on the lock . i think i siad that also before .
 but here is the point .  ill make it again . if a flint fails to go off , its becouse the shooter has not attended to it properly . IE  rock not sharp ,miss aligned ,. bad prime , plugged flash hole  even failing to keep it clean  of fouling .. when all those things are done  and the shooter recognizes when they need to be corretced , you have a very reliable system .
But with a  capper ?? that all means not . the nipple can plug and you wont know it . a patten breach can foul and you wont know it .  the cap can draw moisture and you wont know it , why  becuse all looks well

as to caps. i have used the CCI, Rem, RW and a couple diffrent german ones . all have  duds . some alot more then others . Rems seem to draw moisture worse then the others . leaving the paper inpregnated fominate on the nipple . i have had this happen , as i said , just from setting out on the tailgate of the truck  in the morning dew . it gets so frustrating you take the whole tin and throw it just as far as you can

as to better manufacturing ?  today  they are all made by mechine , not by hand . how many of you remeber when we used to pinch out and make our own caps ?. i dont think you can even buy that set up today . now those were good caps .

but i submit this . any time you can take part in a long range shoot , in a toinchal down poor .with 20+ shooters . only 3 being flintlocks  and an hour later find  of the last 4 standing , 3 are flinlocks  and they are waiting for a person with a caplock who pos cap after cap ?? 4 if i recall , before his shot goes off .  thats got to say something . i know2 other shooters here that can attest to that one . rained so hard you could hardly see the target that afternoon .

as to holding longer ? i wouldnt know , myself i dont shoot my flints any diffrent then i shoot a caplock ?.
 also as joe said , yess you lose more pressure from the vent . however this can be comensated for. your groups shot not be any diffrent . eather your rifle will hold a given POI for a given pressure or it will not    

 as to the history of them , lets not forget that the original  model was not for shoulder fire weapons but artilary . also that a large cap that looked very much like todays 209  came before the #11

[Loyalist Dave]

...I think I am being slandered here  

Slander is spoken.  If it appears on a web-board it's libel, as long as it's presented as fact and not a person's opinion.  

Because of the real world shooting conditions from shot to shot..., meaning it's possible to have a slow ignition than is not "normally" encountered from the lock on a flinter.  I think a human is more likely to influence a shot fired from a flintlock than from a caplock because of this.  It may not happen very often, but it does, so the caplock would be "faster".  My opinion is the difference there is negligible, and as was stated before, the caplock give the shooter better reliability in less than optimum shooting conditions.

LD

[Mike R]

as to caps being unreliable--I guess I have been lucky.  Never had that problem, nor problems with the nipple clogging, etc--of course one has to service a caplock as well as a flintlock.  I have some old Remington caps that I bought in 1978, shortly before I switched to mainly shooting flintlocks.  Well, a couple years ago I bought a sweet little .32 Tenn squirrel rifle made by a friend of mine, but with a small Siler caplock.  Those old Remington caps have gone off every time.  The only problem I have experienced is that I bought some new CCI caps and tried them on my oldest home- made rifle [I made it in 1978] and they were sized differently than the old Remingtons [supposed to be the same # cap]--they were too tight on the nipple and it took a second hammer fall to ignite them!  I discovered this at a shooting match!  Where I managed to win both events despite having to pull the trigger twice at each target shot.  The first fall seated the cap and the second hammer fall shot it!  Yeah at first the boys laughed, but I took home a 20 lb turkey and a new custom made pistol as prizes!  

[jtwodogs]

Thank-you gentlemen for all your opinions, as I expected each have there own personal favorites.
My question was from a stand point of inexperience. I have shot caplocks, (My first was a cva kit I built in 89) Since then I have shot mainly in-lines, but recently kinda gone back to my roots you might say, and have always had a hankerin for a flint lock, they are just very interesting to me although I have never shot one, I believe it is what I want to shoot. Along with a touch of Magnumitis, I am also and accuracy fanatic, that is why I asked the question, but I think it is clear from all the responces that a flintlock can be every bit as accurate as a caplock.
Thanks again for view points on both sides of the fence, that's what makes the world go-round.
Blessings
Jack

[Voyageur]

 I would like to add a few lines here as to "locktime." I shoot an International Event called "FREE PISTOL." which does not mean the pistol is "FREE"---farthest from the truth as a good FP can cost into the thousands of dollars. The essential is that you have an 11" bbl, micrometer iron sights, on an ergonomic stock and no trigger pull regulations. The trigger pulls are generally anywhere from 10 grams to 50 grams, depending on a the shooters desire. The event is shot at 50 meters with ten scoring rings and the ten is the size of a 50 cent piece at 50 metres. The reduced target for 50 ft. is a real eye ball twister with again ten scoring rings and the ten is the size of the capital letter "O"at twelve pica. The small trigger pull and the "lock time " of the striker (similar to a firing pin" is measure in microseconds including those with electronic trigger releases. You can imagine trying to hold sub-six or center of mass with irons and get a ten---that's why the trigger is so light and the lock time in the speed of light class. Why wouldn't the lock time on a flintlock be of importance to accuracy---we have all heard the click---bang from the gun---your ears can pick up the sounds, therefore the closer the click and bang are to each other the less is the gun movement in the interim, hence less factors disturbing the sight picture and follow through. The flinch is alone enough to set a persons sight off, the closeness of the sparks and smoke are all factors. Hence the necessity of a good long "follow-through." Coaching a pistol shooter, I always emphasize the follow through and not the quick rush to see the spotting scopes results. "Doc"

[mark davidson]

Jack, You and I seem to come from similar backgrounds and have a similar approach to this black powder thing. I went with flintlock to begin with for the cool factor and for the challenge but I planned from the start to aquire a gun that would shoot right at MOA at 100 yards or it was gone! My first custom flinter after a little load development would routinely put two round balls side by side roughly an inch apart in an index card off the bench at 100 yards. Accuracy with a flinter is not an issue; they will shoot with any caplock and many centerfire rifles. The barrel quality and the load itself are way more important than how the spark is derived. Nothing wrong with magnumitis; we already covered that.
   Finally, Voyager, I have dabbled in the competitive shooting sports for about 30 years too. By centerfire competitive standards, MLers in general and especially flinters are not supposed to shoot well or hit the broad side of a barn. We know however through experience that that sentiment is false. Bumblebees are not supposed to fly either but they do!! A flinter or caplock either can both be shot extremely well with the right load and a competent  shooter. The most important factor is the "nut" at the back of the stock! :-)