New (to me) Uberti "Hawken", looking for information

[amm1851]

Nice looking rifle, bag and horn. I would say you made out like a bandit.

[One Shot]

Your rifle was manufactured in 2001 as indicated with BP in the box. Original Sante Fe's were discontinued in 1994 and reproduced again in either late 2000 or early 2001. I am not sure if it was indeed called a Santa Fe Hawken again maybe it was given a different name such as just Hawken, I cannot recall. It is different in several respects to the original ones. Steel nose cap, case hardened butt, toe plate and breach/tang. The flat white muzzle with little crown was typical to the originals as well. Your's should be a true .54 using a .530 RB

Have fun and enjoy it.....

[rollingb]

Your rifle was manufactured in 2001 as indicated with BP in the box. Original Sante Fe's were discontinued in 1994 and reproduced again in either late 2000 or early 2001. I am not sure if it was indeed called a Santa Fe Hawken again maybe it was given a different name such as just Hawken, I cannot recall. It is different in several respects to the original ones. Steel nose cap, case hardened butt, toe plate and breach/tang. The flat white muzzle with little crown was typical to the originals as well. Your's should be a true .54 using a .530 RB

Have fun and enjoy it.....

I learn something new every day,... I didn't know Uberti made a later version of their Santa Fe Hawken rifle.
My wife probably knew and didn't tell me 'cause she didn't want me buyin' another rifle.  :rt th

[Bigsmoke]

Incidentally, that is one of my powder horns that I made a while back, MSRP probably was about $60.00 or so.  Silly me, I never really kept track of what the horns sold for, had price lists and computers to do that for me.  Pretty nice horn.  Should remember it as I made very few black horns.

Seriously? How can you tell?  Very cool though.

Well, there are a couple of little give aways.  First is the brass finial.  I have never seen anyone else that used something like that.  I had House of Muskets/Treso make them for me on one of their screw machines.  The tenon on the finial is threaded 1/4-20, FWIW.
Also, I was pretty picky about installing the bushing the valve screws into.  There is a smooth transition from the horn to the brass.  Lastly, on that model of horn, I used a fairly fine brass nail (18 ga) by the baseplug.
Then take into consideration I made those horns for 30 years.  One would think I should recognize them when I see them.  They just kinda jump right out to me.

You got a mighty fine outfit there.  I would agree with Rondo on the value of it, but I got a feeling you undercut that estimate some.  In the end, though, it is only worth what one person agrees to sell it for and another person agrees to pay for it.  If both people walk away with a smile on their face, it's a good deal.

[prairie dog]

Wow, what a nice outfit!  A mountain man could be mighty proud to got to rendezvous totin' that.

 

[rollingb]

Your rifle was manufactured in 2001 as indicated with BP in the box. Original Sante Fe's were discontinued in 1994 and reproduced again in either late 2000 or early 2001. I am not sure if it was indeed called a Santa Fe Hawken again maybe it was given a different name such as just Hawken, I cannot recall. It is different in several respects to the original ones. Steel nose cap, case hardened butt, toe plate and breach/tang. The flat white muzzle with little crown was typical to the originals as well. Your's should be a true .54 using a .530 RB

Have fun and enjoy it.....

Actually it's easy enough to check to see which size round ball the rifle takes,.... I use a strip of .018 pillow ticking about 4" long by 11/2" wide, lube the pillow ticking with whatever you have handy (even "spit" will work  :lt th

[ridjrunr]

I would agree with oneshot.
I will describe mine a little here for clarification. I believe mine to be a first run as is indicated by two things in particular. A slant breech and even though stamped .54 it is in fact a .53 cal. On my top barrel flat is stamped Western Arms Corp Sante Fe NM on the left side barrel flat is A.Uberti & C. Gardone V.T. Italy on rt side oblique flat is xxx1 54 cal.
My barrel also has zero crowning on the barrel all the hardware is brown steel except nose cap and escutions which are pewter and german silver respectivly.
I did quite a bit of online research and have talked to several people who were around shooting bp along time before me and all agrree on the things I have mentioned.( as a cross referance)
It weighs 9.4 pounds. Also the proofmarks are bellow and to the rear of the Uberti names.

Regardless of first second or third run, I have only heard good things about all of the Uberti made Hawkens,or Sante Fe's if you call it that.
 Nice find  

[sclearman]

Your rifle was manufactured in 2001 as indicated with BP in the box.
........
 Your's should be a true .54 using a .530 RB
Have fun and enjoy it.....

Thank you very much for that information!

Then take into consideration I made those horns for 30 years.  One would think I should recognize them when I see them.  They just kinda jump right out to me.

And thank you sir for the information on the horn, very interesting.

Actually it's easy enough to check to see which size round ball the rifle takes,.... I use a strip of .018 pillow ticking about 4" long by 11/2" wide, lube the pillow ticking with whatever you have handy (even "spit" will work  :lt th

That was a great help, it worked perfectly!  Mine is a true .54 caliber.  A .530 ball and 'patch' went in with a gentle push with a ball starter.  I tried a .520 just for grins and could push it and the patch in with gentle finger pressure.

So, I will try to sum up the information in case anyone looks for this later;  Uberti first made the "Sante Fe Hawken" for Leonard Allen.  Those rifles had the barrels stamped with "Sante Fe NM" due to that being the location of the importer.  Western Arms Corporation also sold a Jedidiah Smith Commemorative rifle which was made by Uberti the same as the Allen arms rifle.  Both of these rifles had a .530 bore even though they were marked as .54 caliber.  Those rifles should be shot with .520 balls.  
Uberti also imported the rifle with none of the "Sante Fe" markings, being only labeled as Uberti in true .54 caliber, which is what I have.

Does that sound about right?

[sclearman]

You got a mighty fine outfit there.  I would agree with Rondo on the value of it, but I got a feeling you undercut that estimate some.  In the end, though, it is only worth what one person agrees to sell it for and another person agrees to pay for it.  If both people walk away with a smile on their face, it's a good deal.

We were both happy when we parted.  The pilgrim was asking to sell the whole kit for $225.  I was able to get it at a better deal.

I'm mighty proud of it no doubt.  It needs a lil work.  The finish on the stock has gotten sticky.  I think I will do an "oil scrub" and see how it looks after.  Also as noted the wedge pins are mismatched. One of them has pushed the far sided wedge plate out stripping the wood.  That should be an easy fix, I'll under cut the wood on the back side, fill it with some accuraglass and re-screw it in.  Doubt anyone will ever know.  

Due only to personal preference, I wish the barrel and other metal was browned.  I doubt that the CCH on the parts is true hardening.  I wonder what it would take to remove that finish so everything could be browned.  Suggestions on that?

Again, thanks to all for the information!  I look forward to trying her out!

[Bigsmoke]

If you want to double your money, I think I know someone who would be interested (me).

Great deal, there.  You did good.  To my feeble little mind, I think the true .54 caliber is a big plus.  Not a big deal, just a big plus.  by the time the re-issue of the rifle happened, I had stopped dealing in the import guns and was pretty much just doing accessories.  I do recall that the original run of rifles was browned, as the first one I got appeared to be about .22 caliber due to the fact they had not stopped the browning process.  So, maybe the later ones were blued.  Dunno.

I really don't recall which came first, Western Arms or Allen Firearms.  Doesn't matter as it was all the same guy, Leonard Allen.  I think I recall that Western Arms might have been first as it was a collaboration between Allen and someone else when he was in California, and for some reason I am thinking it might have had something to with EMF (Early and Modern Firearms Co.).  Maybe.

[Bigsmoke]

OK, you asked for it.  Here is the complete rundown of the history of the Uberti/Western Arms Hawken rifle.
It's a pretty long read, so pour yourself a cuppa coffee first before you sit down to peruse it.
Excellent history of the rifle.

Uberti Santa Fe Hawken – GRRW Collector

Is that Green River Rifle Works url?

Actually, it is the URL for a fellow who is totally wowed by the Green River Company and did a ton of research on it and a few of the other Hawken type rifle builders of that era.  There is a ton of research that the fellow has done and he presents it in a terrific format.  Well worth a detailed read.  Bravo to him.
 
Interesting, very interesting.

John

[rollingb]

GREAT find John, thanks!!  

"Here is a photo of an Ithaca Hawken for comparison.  The argument that Allen sent Uberti an Ithaca Hawken is supported by the walnut stock and wide lock panels on the Ithaca rifle."

Now,... who made the "Hawken" that had Ithaca stamped on it???

I'm 100% certain the one a fella brought to my shop in Alaska, shot a .520 ball.

[ridjrunr]

Wow! What a story. Just when you thought you had it figured out

[rollingb]

Actually it's easy enough to check to see which size round ball the rifle takes,.... I use a strip of .018 pillow ticking about 4" long by 11/2" wide, lube the pillow ticking with whatever you have handy (even "spit" will work  :lt th

That was a great help, it worked perfectly!  Mine is a true .54 caliber.  A .530 ball and 'patch' went in with a gentle push with a ball starter.  I tried a .520 just for grins and could push it and the patch in with gentle finger pressure.

If the .530 ball went in with a "gentle push with a ball starter", you might check the ball (after pulling it from the muzzle) to see if your patch material left an imprint of it's weave on the sides of the pure lead ball.
If no weave imprint is readily seen on the ball, you might try the next size bigger ball .535,.... or try a bit thicker patch material.

The patch needs to "grip" the ball to achieve best accuracy.  

Once you've found the "ball and patch" combo you'd like to try,.... we can help you with developing the optimum load for your rifle and fine-tuning everything as you progress.

[sclearman]

If the .530 ball went in with a "gentle push with a ball starter", you might check the ball (after pulling it from the muzzle) to see if your patch material left an imprint of it's weave on the sides of the pure lead ball.

With the starter, what I meant was I didn't need a mallet.  There was resistance, and it took a bit of a tug to get it back out.