LEAVING POWDER & BALL IN YOUR GUN

[sse]

Wyosmith - Again many thanks for you insightful and informative comments!  Fascinating.

[Kirrmeister]

Here in Germany it is absolutly forbidden by law to take a loaded weapon with you from your home to the hunting ground or back. An here a ML is loaded when a charge and ball is in the barrel. so I have to dislaod always after hunting. I do it by shooting at a target. ´Sometimes a roe is so friendly to be my target  


Kirrmeister

[AxelP]

Besides the obvious safety issues of having a loaded gun in your car-- for me, I like to start with a fresh load everytime, so I shoot it out before it goes into my vehicle.

I have heard of people dying when they pull a gun out of a car....I make it policy that no gun is loaded while in my vehicle.

Axe

[Kirrmeister]

Hi Wyosmith,

it was never illegal to hunt with ML in Germany, but it was not very common. Meanwhile I was able to motivate many hunters here in Germany to have a try hunting with ML.

The law doesn't forbid ML for hunting at all.

On my oppinion a PRB is in most cases more effective than these overpowered smokeless powder cartridges. I hunted this season the first time with ML and only with ML. The six roes I got were all clean kills without any bigger damage. For me a great thing. Won't use anything else anymore. I try to push ML hunting forward here in Germany.

Regards

Kirrmeister

[Riley/MN]

I try to push ML hunting forward here in Germany.

Ya know, sumthin tells me we otta make this guy the Germany "state" rep.

[Kirrmeister]

I'll do my very best, but the german hunters are so critical. Many small steps are needed. Meanwhile I was able to convince a german gun magazine to support me. This year they will make a big test of ML rifles for hunting. They'll test muzzleenergy, 50 m and 100 m energy. Effect in the target showed by ballistic gelantine. Effect of PRB and conicals, etc.

Regards

Kirrmeister

[Puffer]

Besides the obvious safety issues of having a loaded gun in your car-- for me, I like to start with a fresh load everytime, so I shoot it out before it goes into my vehicle.

I have heard of people dying when they pull a gun out of a car....I make it policy that no gun is loaded while in my vehicle.

Axe

SIDE NOTE In the state of WA, a Muzzle loader is concidered UNLOADED if the gun is not primed or caped. (IMO  :!:

You should of seen the looks on their faces    (BTW, I was the Inst. for a class on MLs)

Puffer

[Puffer]

In the case of a flintlock, the point of having no prime in the pan is not that it's can't fire without it, but that it can't fire with the frizzen open!
The problem is that in most states the regs are not written that way.

That was part of discussion.

Puffer

[Three Hawks]

Some years back my Mom's cousin, "Junior" was clearing out his mother in law's house in Rapid City, SD and found an old rifle musket, I think a M1861  in a back room that had been used for storage since before WWII.  He asked me if I wanted it, then mailed it to me.  I was unfamiliar with BP guns at the time so I took it to agunsmith to have it umbreeched and inspected to see if it was safe.  The nipple was smashed closed.   When the smith unbreeched that musket, he called me to come have a look.  There were five minie balls in the barrel, each one with a full load under it.  We figured some poor scared out of his wits soldier in the Civil War just kept loading and firing without capping until either the battle ended or he was hit.   The smith cleared all the rounds and cleaned the barrel then determined that the gun wasn't safe to fire as the barrel was too corroded and was ringed in three places.   I ultimately sold it in 1973 and bought a two year old VW Westfalia camper with  the proceeds.  

Junior found from one of his in-laws that they used to play Cowboys and Indians with that old gun from the early30's until WWII,  and fired it by gluing kitchen match heads on the nipple with chewing gum.    

They'd originally found it in a dump near Chicago during the depression.    

The gunsmith saved that hundred plus year old powder and told me later he loaded it in his Ted Fellows .40 cal. flintlock to see what it would do, and it fired just fine.

Thee Hawks

[Three Hawks]

Besides the obvious safety issues of having a loaded gun in your car-- for me, I like to start with a fresh load everytime, so I shoot it out before it goes into my vehicle.

I have heard of people dying when they pull a gun out of a car....I make it policy that no gun is loaded while in my vehicle.

Axe

SIDE NOTE In the state of WA, a Muzzle loader is concidered UNLOADED if the gun is not primed or caped. (IMO  :!:

You should of seen the looks on their faces    (BTW, I was the Inst. for a class on MLs)

Puffer

This is according to hunting regs only.  The WA State hunting regs state that you can't have a loaded long gun in a motor vehicle or boat while in motion WHILE YOU ARE HUNTING.   So they allow a muzzle loader to be regarded as unloaded as long as it isn't capped or primed.   To the best of my knowlege no harm has resulted from this so far.  If it had, rest assured our nanny statist beurocrats would have been all over it like flies on a pile of sh*t.

Three Hawks

[Captchee]

This is according to hunting regs only. The WA State hunting regs state that you can't have a loaded long gun in a motor vehicle or boat while in motion WHILE YOU ARE HUNTING. So they allow a muzzle loader to be regarded as unloaded as long as it isn't capped or primed. To the best of my knowlege no harm has resulted from this so far. If it had, rest assured our nanny statist beurocrats would have been all over it like flies on a pile of sh*t.

Thing to remember is most of these laws were written with very little base of information
 I would also disagree with Steve here .
While  original flintlocks wouldn’t go off with the frizzen open . Under the right circumstances  modern ones will .
All it takes is one spark . I have seen that spark come from the barrel .
 Not to long ago I saw this happen.  I cant say who the barrel company was  but basically what happened was  the shooter  had  a couple clatches and  had changed out his  flint .
 Well he didn’t have one so I offered  one up .
 The flint however  I gave was a 1 inch . The shooter didn’t slide the flint over  when he set it  and as such as he let the cock forward , his thumb slipped off and the cock fell .
The gun went off ?
 This  intrigued me because  I saw his frizzen was open .
 Upon inspecting the situation  what I found was a gouge  along the flat of the barrel where the flint had struck . This is the only place IMO a spark could have came from .
I also have witnessed  a flintlock going off  with the cock full forward and the frizzen open .
 But this was a left handed gun  of a person standing in line along side a right handed flintlock shooter . The fella had a loaded rifle  and was following the rules of not priming tell it was his turn . But he failed to   cover the lock . Guess he thought 5 ft was far enough away . But that 1 in a million spark found its way not only into the pan but  was hot enough to  bounce and ignite the main charge .  The fella was lucky . While the rifle wasn’t pointed down range , it was  pointed up  and away from his face . Could have  been a real bad deal .

I also have seen percussion guns go off when they appeared not to be capped . Most times I think this happened because of  a cap separating and leaving  part of its inside still on the cap , even though the brass cup was taken off .

 Now one thing that did happen to me  long , long ago when I  first started out  and still using cap guns .
 I had a  rifle that  had a deep cup on the hammer . I didn’t realize that there was a couple spent caps stuck up in there .
 We came off the trail from hunting   I cocked the hammer back and didn’t find a cap .
Thinking it had fell off , I loaded the rifle in the jeep at half cock and set it  muzzle up alongside of me .
 A little later while driving down this bumpy road , I just happened to look down  and the cap caught my eye  right there in the cup was  the cap I though had fell of . It was stuck  in   being held by the spent caps .
 I have no doubt that  it would have gone off if the hammer had dropped.
So really while it looked  unloaded , it wasn’t .

 The point is ,  regardless of what you think , ALLWAYS consider the gun loaded .
 If there is powder in the bore , it is loaded .
All that has to happen is that 1 in a million spark  to  find its way  and if the planets are  lined up , she will go off

[Dragoon]

So, let me stick my toe into this one. I do not have a modern pistol any more. I have a .44 Caliber Army Colt. I have considered loading 5 cylinders on this thing, capping them, then leaving the hammer on the empty one in the half-cocked position. This would be my home protection weapon. I would use Crisco to seal the ends of the cylinders.

From what I have read here this would be a viable solution to my needs while not hurting the weapon. Any thoughts?

[jbullard1]

Dragoon
I have a Pietta 44 cal 1861 clone that I loaded in November and carried it on many hunting trips in varying weather conditions. The end of Janurary all chambers fired like they were just loaded. I did clean and thoroughly dry the cylinder just before loading. I also used felt wads under the ball and crisco on top then lightly oiled the outside of the revolver. After firing there was no sighs of corrosion. It should work even better inside the home

[R.M.]

I might suggest that you leave the hammer all the way down on the empty chamber. On half-cock, the cylinder is free to rotate.
Something to think about.

[Minnesota Mike]

Basic rule of gun safety - treat every weapon as a loaded weapon.

Read in some journal somewhere about 'checking priming every week or so and check powder every month.

r/
MM