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Author Topic: poor boy  (Read 7353 times)

Offline wadedog

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« Reply #30 on: February 23, 2008, 04:58:25 PM »
What exactly does it mean when it's in the "white".

no wood stain or blueing but assembled and ready to shoot ?

Offline tg

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« Reply #31 on: February 23, 2008, 05:35:19 PM »
Pretty much, you need to file the casting lines and clean up the furniture, probably thin down the stock and seal/stain finish as desiered, draw fffile barrel and brown or polish or age to taste,this lets you put a bit of "you" into the project and can familiarize one with the gunbuilding process, kind of a first step many take before trying a parts set.

Offline wadedog

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« Reply #32 on: February 23, 2008, 09:27:08 PM »
Hmmm, it sounds like maybe completing a kit is more than i thought of.
thinning down the stock is something i hadn't thought of that was needed done in a kit.
How many more things is there secretly hidden in a kit to foil my gun building experience if i choose to buy a kit.
makes me wonder if a kit is over my head.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2008, 08:39:29 AM by wadedog »

Offline Captchee

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« Reply #33 on: February 23, 2008, 10:02:09 PM »
such kits are builders kits .  even with a pre shaped  stock  you only get a basic  shape . you have to do all the drilling soldering  and wood work  as well as inleting .
 with a in the white gun , most all thats done for you  but for the  fineries .

 if  a in the white rifle has you concerned  dont go with a kit

Offline tg

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« Reply #34 on: February 24, 2008, 02:05:30 PM »
I did not intend  to cause anyone to shy away from an in the white project,  I have done a few and the thinning of the stock has been done whole preping for seasl/finish and sandpaper was used, how much xtra wood that is left may depend on the vendor, and each individuals idea of where they want the end product to be, I think most folks would be able to finish off one of these guns without much difficulty, and there is a lot of help available on this and other forums if a question should arise.

Offline wadedog

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« Reply #35 on: February 24, 2008, 06:34:40 PM »
thanks tg for your vote of confidence .

Is there any pics on this site or maybe someone could post a few pics of their projects in stages of their build.

Offline Captchee

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« Reply #36 on: February 24, 2008, 06:54:39 PM »
if you look down in the gun building forum , you will find step by step instruction  on both kit , scratch or  restocking and converting  .
 its all there for information

Offline Gordon H.Kemp

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« Reply #37 on: February 24, 2008, 07:19:28 PM »
I can't speak for others, but as was said, a gun in the white is usually able to be fired (as is). I have one gun I use for hunting/target/plinking that may never be "finished". Every once in a while I get the urge to refine one part or another. Of corse. this is a generic gun that dosn't have to meet any particular criteria of a weapon to duplicate any original builders school.  But its great to be able to sharpen one's general building skills without the worry of serious damage to a good piece. I would think it a wise decision to start with a gun in the white as opposed to a builders kit.
Gordy
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Expires 3/14/2013

Offline wadedog

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« Reply #38 on: February 26, 2008, 08:33:45 AM »
Thanks , that sounds good.

Offline Captchee

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« Reply #39 on: February 26, 2008, 09:45:15 AM »
Something else to remember is that each manufacture has their own idea of what IN THE WHITE is .
  It used to be that an in the white gun was just that .
Everything would be inlet and screwed on  . The stocks would be taken down to  proper shape  and sanded to just before the point of where  one could start   carving  or staining . Some even  to the point all that was left was for the person to  start the stock finish  . Normally the locks  barrels and hardware also needed cleaned up ..
 Recently though  I have began to see  more and more that are being left with  a lot of stock shaping needing done  and in some cases a whole  lot of   work being needed on the metal parts  being left for the customer to do . While they are still shoot able , IMO theses were very much just  completely inlet and drilled guns . Something like what you would get with a production kit rifle .
 I recently saw a  trade gun that a fella showed me he had purchased IN THE WHITE.
 It was from a better known company  so I expected to see this rifle in the final stages of completion . I was very surprised to see it was not .
So do your research . Ask at what stage of completing the rifle is at .

 I would also agree with steve here that a true poor boy is  just that . The guns were made as cheep as they could possibly be made . Often times with no Trigger guards  or buttplate  Or these were made of wood . Often times also there would be no side plates.
 There would also be no entry thimble fro the RR , no nose cap and  most times only  1 or 2 very simple  RR pipes / thimbles . No inlay work at all , no carving

 Today however  it has came to be  a rifle that is normally  mounted with iron hardware but with no entry thimble or  nose cap .
 The Trigger guards are also normally on top of the stocks and not recessed .

 Now there is some debate historically as to IF  a poorer rifle would have iron or brass hardware as most certainly there are different levels of  the so called poor boy rifles .
 My take is that  IF iron was used , it would be very simple plate iron  work  that could be bent to make parts .
 There is a lot more work in forging   nice  components then there  was in casting say brass .
 For forging it takes a some what knowledgeable person . Where with casing , it only take one  to over see  the work .
 Ever heard the saying ;” go pound sand”
 Well this stems from the process of founding .  The sand is packed / pounded  around the moulds  using a packer to  produce a cavity for  duplicating the casting .
 This was very much a novice job inside the foundry . A person would be sent  to  pound sand  .
 The end result is an item that takes much less time , experience and man power to produce .
 The other side of the coin though is that  we have an item that is shinny and gold . Thus it has a richer  appearance.
 While  the item isn’t true gold , we have a mentality that  gold is worth more then silver  and this plays a part often times  in what we feel is worth more  when comparing a simple rifle  mounted with polished brass or a simple rifle mounted   with polished  forged iron  . But in reality which took more time to build  ? The components in brass or the ones of iron ?
 We see this still today . If you look at the cost of castings . Brass is most times  more then the same part in cast steel , even though to cast steel you need a higher temperature taking  more time to reach , thus a higher foundry cost  . So you can see the BLING , BLING factor playing a part
.

So when you say POOR BOY  what level of poor are you looking  for .
 Very low and basic  and the bear minimums  or simple , basic  and whats considered cheaper
 Thus you can have a poor boy that’s  as steve has said  OR you can have a poor boy that still has  a trgger guard  made of iron   yet no side plate , a butt plate of wood , no nose cap and no entry thimble . No carving and no inlay work, just a simple basic cost cutting rifle  that’s on the cheeper side concerning  gunsmith time

Offline TomG

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« Reply #40 on: March 02, 2008, 09:56:40 AM »
Wadedog,
Im getting ready to order a poor boy kit from TVM.
Probably in about a month.
This will be my third semi custom build.
I am no gunmaker, I never have been and I never will be.
These kits can be very intimidating.
But with the help from this forum,  I can get through it.
Ill just take my time, and do one piece at a time.
With men on here like Captchee and Wyosmith and others( these guys are master gunmakers and are always willing to help).
When in doubt ask for help.
I ordered a catalog from TVM.
In kit form they install the ventliner,cut dovetails, fit the cap to the butt,etc.
The two kits I got from another company had none of this done.

Offline Groundhog

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« Reply #41 on: March 02, 2008, 10:21:57 AM »
I like "Poor-boy" rifles ... they shoot as good and feel as good as any gun when you are having a good day burnin powder.
  That is after all what really counts.
Keep the Tradition alive !
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Remove all WARNING LABELS , survival of the fittest.
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Offline TomG

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« Reply #42 on: March 02, 2008, 10:46:55 AM »
Wadedog,
When I start my poor boy kit Ill take pics of everything I do.
That way everyone can see and make comments, ideas and critique me on what needs to be done and how to do it.

Offline Kirrmeister

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« Reply #43 on: March 02, 2008, 10:57:54 AM »
TomG,

so you make a internet guided riflebuilding course, great!

I'll be your first coursemember!


Regards

Kirrmeister
TMA-member since Feb 2008, member# 329,

NMLRA member

Keep traditional!

Offline TomG

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« Reply #44 on: March 02, 2008, 11:11:05 AM »
Hi Dirk,
Ill need lots of help from the forum.
I dont think I could do this or even attempt this build without help from the forum.
Ill need a guiding hand.