Author Topic: What the mountain man wore (Read 1316 times)

sse · « **Reply #15 on:** January 25, 2006, 11:38:35 AM »

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unless you are a "gentleman" from the era, now your talking more formal wear.

You don't know me too good...LOL!!

Thanks, B-Man

BEAVERMAN · « **Reply #16 on:** January 25, 2006, 11:54:53 AM »

had to get that in here for my buddies Puffie and Mikey!

sse · « **Reply #17 on:** January 25, 2006, 11:57:35 AM »

Watch that partner, you don't want to be lookin down the business end of a couple .54 cal bag pipes!!!!!!

Regards, sse

oomcurt · « **Reply #18 on:** January 25, 2006, 03:32:49 PM »

Just my two cents.... I read somewheres that perhaps over the entire fur trade period maybe some 1500 men were involved at one time or another in the business. I have also read where it was not at all uncommon for a trapper to take a indian wife and live with the tribe most of the time. Well....seems to make perfect sense to me that he would have adopted one hell of a lot of that tribes culture and style of dress. Now, with these war shirts...from what I have read the "scalps" on them were not scalps, rather they were large locks of hair that came from the trappers "family and other tribal friends". Sort of the same thing modern man does when he carries photos in his wallet. Would they be worn while trapping or at a rondy? I doubt it. "War" is the word that tells it all. Re breech clouts...I don't see any reason why they would not be worn, especially if the wearer was one that had spent several years in the mtns. Now, to each thier own...but this thing about buckskins not being comfortable...maybe if it was 110 degrees in the shade...but other than that...I would rather wear mine than modern clothing. I plan on making or getting a set of leggings and a clout just for that reason..in the warmer weather I should think it would be a hell of a lot more comfortable that wearing regular pants. Re wearing a buckskin shirt...I as yet don't have any...in the fall and winter...yeah..in the middle of summer...no way...a cloth shirt or maybe just a buckskin vest type of thing...or else what the indians wore ..... no shirt at all. To each thier own..but I don't buy into this skin cancer thing..I've spent a hell of a lot of time out doors working and such...never had a problem. Maybe if one has sensitive skin that would be a different story. All of the above is just my "take" on this matter...not at all saying it is the correct or only view.

Captchee · « **Reply #19 on:** January 25, 2006, 04:26:08 PM »

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Now, to each thier own...but this thing about buckskins not being comfortable...maybe if it was 110 degrees in the shade

well you would think wouldnâ€™t ya but actually the opposite is true .
The skins do not breath well and im here to tell you that even at 25 deg just hiking a couple miles up hill with only a rifle a shoot bag , maybe a capote on top and you will soon be soak and wet from your own sweat .
Now while lounging around camp is one thing , we have to remember these fellas were working and working hard .
Try it some time , get dressed in full skins and a fur hat . Make you a like 20 lb pack and go for a hike. Try it in early spring when the weather is still cool . I know for me , my first hunting trip dressed as such in late fall was a miserable experience to say the least . It wasnâ€™t long before I was so hot it was unbearable , that turned to a chill that I thought I would never get warm from

BEAVERMAN · « **Reply #20 on:** January 26, 2006, 11:07:48 AM »

thats why you need more than just skins! thus a chage of at least a shirt or 2, when too warm the leggings can be shed as stated above, to cool add the shirt, or a blanket, real cold, capote or canoe jacket! yes I know the mtn man didnt pack an extra mule to carry his wardrobe, but a cotton or linen shirt or 2 takes no room or weight!

Captchee · « **Reply #21 on:** January 26, 2006, 12:44:30 PM »

Yep beaver man and IMO thatâ€™s most likely what they did .
When we go trekking , mind you I do eastern 1750 about time frame . My bed roll is made up of 3 blankets . I heavy , one medium and one light wool . 2 shirts , 4 pairs of socks, 2 extra sets moc ,
An extra knife and eating utensils . A small double boiler for heating water ,eating and cooking in .
Some tea and enough food for a 2 day outing + a candle and extra strike alight .
If I donâ€™t add an oil skin it comes in to right under 20lbs . If I add it im pushing 30 .
Now thatâ€™s not including the cloths im wearing . Consisting of 2 shirts breach clout , wool or leather leggings, sash and either a frock or a medium capote.

Eather way I consider that most likely on the light side for the men of that time period as most were in the 20â€™s and in top notch shape, tempered by a life of hardships .
At that age I was in the army and being infantry 75 to 100 lb loads was not uncommon ,not including weapon and added web gear . 20 to 30lbs back then would have been nothing .
If we consider that even then our soldiers of today most likely were or are not in the same shape as folks that live that life day by day we can get maybe some idea

Puffer · « **Reply #22 on:** January 27, 2006, 06:58:48 PM »

Quote from: "sse"

Watch that partner, you don't want to be lookin down the business end of a couple .54 cal bag pipes!!!!!!

Regards, sse

GO FOR IT !!

This unrepented "critter", BEAVERMAN, Needs a lesson or 2 :rofl

YES, BEAVERMAN I'm BACK

Puffer

Sir Michael · « **Reply #23 on:** January 27, 2006, 08:24:02 PM »

I'm on the road and don't have access to any of my reference material but I think that in discussing the dress of American Mountain Men of the 1820-1840 period in the eastern Oregon Country/Eastern slope of the Rocky Mountains, there is a difference between what they wore and what the men of the HBC and NWC wore in the Western and Northern area of the Oregon Country.

Before making too much of grand descriptions of buckskins and such, check out the lists of goods taken to rendezvous by the traders such as those posted on the following WEB site.

http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/bizrecs.html

Another thought. The trappers who survived the trapping to the onslaught of civilization sometimes described themselves and dressed to meet the expectations of the flatlanders than how they really dressed when working. (I read that somewhere)

:peace :peace

BEAVERMAN · « **Reply #24 on:** January 28, 2006, 01:32:41 PM »

Michael, did you read all of the previuos posts? theres no argument that they did wear" christian clothing" some of the time, and yes cloth items were brought to rondy in many forms from pantaloons to shirts, bulk yardage was also carried to rondy,and how many of these fellas were skilled enough to make there own clothing?, even if they did wear skins, in some journals that ive read they mention stopping at a stream close to the rondy, bathing, even shaving, putting on a clean calico or linen shirt and making a grand entrance. is there any records of what and how many of the items that were packed and hauled to rondy were brought back to St. louis or stayed at bents or bridgers forts for future trade? and how many of the cloth items wre actually traded to the tribes? just something to consider!

Sir Michael · « **Reply #25 on:** January 28, 2006, 04:41:41 PM »

Jim,

Yes I did read the previous posts but I must be missing your point. Sometimes I'm not the brightest bulb in the box. The leaning of this thread has been discussed in several other threads and forums. My conclusion is that the American Mountain Men started of in "Christian Clothes" as you put it and as clothing wore out patched and eventually substituted either self made copies in what ever material was available. Obviously hides were more readily available than fabric and by extension, their clothing at the end of a year or near isolation left them wearing quite a bit of leather clothing. I'm sure that they did not go into the mountains with just the clothes on their backs. They also did not except for short periods of time. They worked in "brigades" which were composed of several different types of skills, hunters, trappers, cooks, laborers, and others. These "brigades" were well enough equipped to take with them blacksmith tools and an amazing amount of other equipment. For those that took up with Indians, there is I believe little doubt that they adopted in part or whole the dress of their hosts. I'm not sure I understand the debate between those promoting leather and those promoting cloth. IMHO a person portraying an American Mountain Man could legitimately wear a variety of clothing not just one or the other. BTW I do feel that there is problem with members of our persuasion demanding that there is only one way to dress or only certain accoutrement/equipment is allowable. There is too much uncertainty and too may options to try to establish absolutes. However, in the presence of overwhelming proof that a specific item is not suitable is good research and sharing research of that type is an absolute responsibility. :hey-hey Shut up and sit down.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

As to your last question, I asked the same question on another forum and the consensus was that very little of what was taken out was brought back. Furs and hides were too valuable to displace with trade goods. But I really have no idea for sure. I've heard rumors that if your a registered academic you can request information from the HBC archives and if they can find it they'll send it to you via sail mail. Ask Jack.

Captchee · « **Reply #26 on:** January 28, 2006, 06:31:36 PM »

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I'm not sure I understand the debate between those promoting leather and those promoting cloth. IMHO a person portraying an American Mountain Man could legitimately wear a variety of clothing not just one or the other.

+

well said an thats my point . i believe they wore both . leather when the cloth wore out and then replace that leather with more cloth as soon as it became available. Probability a mixture of both most of the time . My strong opinion is that I do not believe the Hollywood image of the western mountain man in complete leather and , ft long fringe and full draping fur on hat is most likely not correct

Puffer · « **Reply #27 on:** January 28, 2006, 07:02:36 PM »

The Iroquois & "Freemen egages" in 1808, were isued the following by David Thompson:

2 fine cotton or 2 calicoe shirts
1 blanket - 3 pt. striped
1 capote - fine (?)
4 lbs soap ( YES SOAP )
1-2 hankerchef(s)
1 pr fine cord trousers
1 Par Fleche (??)
2 Steel traps

Also, David Thompsonson , several times notes that the Indians REPLACED their animal skin clothes with WOOL, ETC. when ever possible. :idea: that even the "SIMPLE MINDED" Free Trappers would do the same thing, if they could

? ( Read the lists of goods sent to the Rendezvous)

Also note - I have a close friend who is a Blackfoot /Sioux Med. woman, & she says "war shirts were only worn for war or ceremony puurposes !

ALSO there are a # of ref.s to the trappers, changing into their "finery" when coming into Rendezvous.. These clothes often were "fine shirts" made by their wives.

Puffer

Puffer · « **Reply #28 on:** January 28, 2006, 07:26:21 PM »

BREECH CLOTHES ?? IMHO it depends on the location.
In W. WA. ?? The Blackberrys ,& poison oak will "LOVE" you :rofl

Puffer

Sir Michael · « **Reply #29 on:** January 28, 2006, 07:46:15 PM »

Puffer, did you find it or did I just run across it some where that the HBC issued Breechcloths at some point in lieu of trousers?

Or am I dreaming again.

I hate being separated from my reference material. :evil:

A Quick Check on the Net and voila.

Go to this site and search on it for "breechcloth".

http://www.northwestjournal.ca/XVII1.htm

It was the NWC not the HBC. If they issued them then others must have worn them on their own. IMHO.

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