Astoria 1811 shoe questions

[biliff]

Since 2011 is the the 200th anniversary of the founding of Astoria (they're having an encampment in September at the Fort if anyone is interested), I thought I'd try and put together an 1811 walking around outfit.

Thinking along the lines of a midlevel clerk, and I got stuck on the appropriate shoes. Since I'm in my 50's I can get away with being on the old fashioned side, but would buckle shoes be pushing it too far?

Being basically cheap, I'm trying to go with what I already have, but if its not reasonable I'll bite the bullet and get some Jeffersons.

This is as far as I'm willing to venture into the western fur trade era as I'm not going to get one of those new fangled caplocks.

[ManyVoices]

Hi Biliff,

I'll admit, don't know all that much about gents' shoes.  But I am remembering the latest Pride & Prejudice movie, supposedly set in 1813, where the "younger" folk were wearing all the latest duds, and the parents & "older" folk were looking more like what we'd call American Colonial.  I know, I know, never trust Hollywood costuming, but the contrast between the generations looked good.  So, you might be able to stretch it - especially out here in the back country & not of the highest rank.  But, that said, I'll happily bow to those more in the know.

But, I did want to make sure astoria200's encampment website got on the TMA!  I'll be there for the whole time, Patrick will be there as he can around school obligations.  Look forward to meeting some more of you good folk there!

http://www.astoria200.org/default.asp?d ... eventID=19

[biliff]

Funny, my wife tells me what to wear all the time, but on this issue she has no input.

I'll have to look for you out there.  I'm hoping to be camped out in the modern campground and day tripping over to the encampment.

Don't suppose you know how to tie a cravat?

[ManyVoices]

There's a photo of a period drawing on this site: http://www.songsmyth.com/shoes.html  that shows a more pointed toe on the shoe, but it's definitely buckled.  

Also found some information on janeausten.co.uk   "Jessamyn Reeves Brown is an historian of Regency Fashion. Her research into Regency footwear shows that 'prior to the Regency, both women and men wore what we now call "court shoes": high-throated pumps with curved heels and side pieces that tied or buckled elaborately at the throat. As dresses became less structured and suits less elaborate, shoes did too. Heels dropped rapidly through the 1790s and by 1800 were very small indeed, while material was pared away to a minimum from the uppers. Men's dress shoes lost their heels even before women's did, but some retained the fine buckles of the 18th century for the most formal of occasions. Men's shoes also became basic black quite early in the century - almost no other color is seen after 1800.

"Both men's and women's shoes of the 18th century had flaps attached at the instep and outstep that came up over the throat and were held in place with a buckle (most commonly) or were tied in place with bows. These flaps were called latchets, and they did not entirely disappear in the Regency."

In other words, looks like you'll be okay with the buckle.

As for a cravat, got my husband "The Art of Tying the Cravat" from the late lamented Amazon Dry Goods.  I'll check with him to see if he has any advice.  Jessamyn has some info & pictures - click the links about half-way down on http://www.songsmyth.com/costumecreation.html  And, I'm seeing it on Googlebooks, though they don't seem to have all the plates.  They had some awful fancy cravats back then.   Shoot me a pm if you're wanting more information, or if I can try to scan the plates from the booklet - don't know if the rest of the guys want to get so high-falutin'  

Hope that helps!

[BEAVERMAN]

Karen, we're thinking of heading down for that and setting up in traders row, sleeping in modern

[ManyVoices]

Hey, cool, Jim!  This could be the party of the season!  

[Puffer]

WELCOME to "The CO."  

BTW, if you "pack a "capper", you will be about 20 years into the "future".

As Karen knows, My "persona "revolves" around this time period & area. ( a NWC/HBC mid- upper level) & trying to get a handle on "proper attire"is a "challenge"

Here is my "take"- 1st "rule" = The Men wore "basically" the same attire as they would have worn in their activities "back East". Whether Dress or Work. Their attire would be based on Their "position" in Society/work.

The choice of "foot wear" & Neck wear would depend on your "overall "look" ( Dress,semi dress or work.) ( note - Astor's people (mid clerk level & up) were Scots & some "Yanks"

Neck wear - During this time you would wear either a "stock" or a cravat.
The Cravat
A. All men wore a waistcoat/vest.  ( what you "choose" may "dictate" the way you "tie" the cravat.
B. At this time the "fops" made an "Art of doing this, but I would suggest a ""simple style"  ( note a cravat is at least 4 1/2'- 5' long & about 3" - 4" wide ) My choice is "the coach or waterfall" ( most often)
Here is a plc to get the "idea"
[albumimg:2j6cy6p4]5223[/albumimg:2j6cy6p4]
Also, I would pick Black for gen. wear, White for Dress. My "look"
[albumimg:2j6cy6p4]4306[/albumimg:2j6cy6p4]

Foot Wear - Here again it depends on Your "looK".  ( IMHO, only "fops wore the "pumps etc")The "deciding factor, IMO, is the "style" of garment you are wearing below the waist.

Boots - Very often worn.
A. If your "pant" is more or less "form fitting" then a " over the calf high boot.
B. If your "pant"  fits in a way it "drapes over your ankle", then - 1/2 boot or "brogues" ( what I wear )

Buckled Shoes - IMO, only for Dress & with "Knee length breeches" with hose or a Kilt ( yes the kilt was ther & worn by @ least the Scots that came 1st ( via ship.)

Here is my "kilted presentation".

[albumimg:2j6cy6p4]3782[/albumimg:2j6cy6p4]

The long & short of it GO FOR IT , Have FUN & if someone "PCs" you, find Karen, or I am there Me. Trust me they will NOT survive.

Puffer

[Puffer]

WELCOME to "The CO."  

BTW, if you "pack a "capper", you will be about 20 years into the "future".

As Karen knows, My "persona "revolves" around this time period & area. ( a NWC/HBC mid- upper level) & trying to get a handle on "proper attire"is a "challenge"

Here is my "take"- 1st "rule" = The Men wore "basically" the same attire as they would have worn in their activities "back East". Whether Dress or Work. Their attire would be based on Their "position" in Society/work.

The choice of "foot wear" & Neck wear would depend on your "overall "look" ( Dress,semi dress or work.) ( note - Astor's people (mid clerk level & up) were Scots & some "Yanks"

Neck wear - During this time you would wear either a "stock" or a cravat.
The Cravat
A. All men wore a waistcoat/vest.  ( what you "choose" may "dictate" the way you "tie" the cravat.
B. At this time the "fops" made an "Art of doing this, but I would suggest a ""simple style"  ( note a cravat is at least 4 1/2'- 5' long & about 3" - 4" wide ) My choice is "the coach or waterfall" ( most often)
Here is a plc to get the "idea"
[albumimg:16mi2c3a]5223[/albumimg:16mi2c3a]
Also, I would pick Black for gen. wear, White for Dress. My "look"
[albumimg:16mi2c3a]4306[/albumimg:16mi2c3a]

Foot Wear - Here again it depends on Your "looK".  ( IMHO, only "fops wore the "pumps etc")The "deciding factor, IMO, is the "style" of garment you are wearing below the waist.

Boots - Very often worn.
A. If your "pant" is more or less "form fitting" then a " over the calf high boot.
B. If your "pant"  fits in a way it "drapes over your ankle", then - 1/2 boot or "brogues" ( what I wear )

Buckled Shoes - IMO, only for Dress & with "Knee length breeches" with hose or a Kilt ( yes the kilt was ther & worn by @ least the Scots that came 1st ( via ship.)

Here is my "kilted presentation".

[albumimg:16mi2c3a]3782[/albumimg:16mi2c3a]

The long & short of it GO FOR IT , Have FUN & if someone "PCs" you, find Karen, or I am there Me. Trust me they will NOT survive.

Puffer

[biliff]

Thanks for the inputs.

I'm leaning toward a short vest, basic work shirt, narrow fall front trousers, carriage hat and cravat (or my neck stock if I can't figure out how to tie the fool thing.)

Probably spring for some Jefferson shoes as the information seems to be buckle shoes were more formal wear by this time. Sure don't want to look like a fop either.  

I'll hold off on a coat for now, even though it would probably be a more complete look and more appropriate in polite company. There's always my boat cloak if it gets chilly.

Should be able to get away with that.  Will probably get some funny looks at some of the rondies this summer as it doesn't fit with most people's concept of the western fur trade.