Welcome to the TMA - the Traditional Muzzleloading Association

The TMA is always free to access: totally non-profit and therefore no nagging for your money, no sponsors means no endless array of ads to wade through, and no "membership fees" ever required. Brought to you by traditional muzzleloaders with decades of wisdom in weaponry, accoutrements, and along with 18th and 19th century history knowledge of those times during the birth our nation, the United States of America.

!!! PLEASE CLICK HERE TO READ AN IMPORTANT TMA MESSAGE !!!

Author Topic: Itinerant Blacksmiths, Did they Exist?  (Read 317 times)

Offline Rasch Chronicles

Itinerant Blacksmiths, Did they Exist?
« on: August 17, 2011, 10:47:34 PM »
Hello friends!

Here is something that I have wondered about, but never researched. Where there itinerant blacksmiths?

If so, when did they appear? Are there any references?

The more I look at historically accurate portrayals as you fellows do, the more I realize how romanticized our picture is. For instance, in The Last of the Mohicans, Hawkeye uses Pennsylvania rifles. I’m sure if I do a search you guys have hashed that one out repeatedly! Here is another example: Pilgrims and blunderbusses! Popular culture (Hollywood) really does dictate how we perceive things.

So, I was curious if there where itinerant smiths that might have traveled the frontier towns, or if maybe there were enough released apprentices to fill the needs of new communities.

Best Regards,
Albert A Rasch
"Skull Mountain" Sperwan Ghar, Panjwai District, Afghanistan
Standing Ready when the Wolves Growl at the Door...
[size=85]TMA Member #638 Expires 08/10/2012[/size]

Offline rickevans

  • TMA Forum Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 803
  • Total likes: 0
  • TMA: TMA Supporting Member #232 ....... Expires 7/5/19
  • TMA Member: 232
  • Location: GA
Re: Itinerant Blacksmiths, Did they Exist?
« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2011, 10:46:51 AM »
Well...I haven't really found much historical evidence of such, and the tools required would require a wagon and oxen probably. Sure would be a fun (and interesting) persona to develop and travel with.

The biggest issue would be how to tote around the blower or bellows required for the forge. Not to mention the forge and anvil, swage block, vice....I need a bigger wagon! And an apprentice or two.
R. C. (Rick) Evans
TMA# 232 Expires 7/5/22
Honorable Company of Horners
Contemporary Longrifle Association
Life Member NRA

Offline snake eyes

Re: Itinerant Blacksmiths, Did they Exist?
« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2011, 05:35:28 AM »
Al,
   I am by no means an historian on the subject,or pretend to be.
Having said that I do have an opinion. One thing I have learned from this and
other such forums is that,of all craftsmen,it was the smithy that could
improvise the best. In their travels west it seems unlikely to me that the
wagon trains would not have had a blacksmith with them.Maybe he didn't
know he was a blacksmith,but he did know the use of fire and metal.Looking
back into even BC times they were working with metals.Rome,Egypt,Greese,Persia and others understood how to work metal into weapons.
 I think in all likelyhood there almost had to be itinerant smithys.I know you want to see in in writing and I hope you find it.I say there was just because
there almost had to be. Just a thought
John :shake
Erin Go Bragh
TMA Co -Founder & Charter member #10 to   7/1/2019
Ohio TMA State Rep[/color]
Life member: NAHC
Life member: NRA
Member: Columbus M/L GC

"If you come to a fork in the road....take it!"
    Yogi Berra

Sir Michael

  • Guest
Re: Itinerant Blacksmiths, Did they Exist?
« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2011, 02:03:29 PM »
There were apparently itinerant blacksmiths in England.  Although what exactly that met I don't know.  I found a family trade history site that lists a Mathew Freeman as a itinerant blacksmith in the Reading area in Berkshire England.

The U.S. Military in the Revolution designed a traveling blacksmith wagon around a portable forge.  Which may have lead to or from itinerant civilian blacksmiths.

Offline rickevans

  • TMA Forum Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 803
  • Total likes: 0
  • TMA: TMA Supporting Member #232 ....... Expires 7/5/19
  • TMA Member: 232
  • Location: GA
Re: Itinerant Blacksmiths, Did they Exist?
« Reply #4 on: August 29, 2011, 09:01:54 AM »
Good observation Sir Michael. Indeed, any army of some size would need a blacksmith. Or two. Not only did they shoe horses, but many were also the Repair Man of choice for all kinds of things mechanical.  A good research topic.
R. C. (Rick) Evans
TMA# 232 Expires 7/5/22
Honorable Company of Horners
Contemporary Longrifle Association
Life Member NRA

Offline Kermit

  • TMA Forum Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 421
  • Total likes: 0
  • TMA: 3/21/17 ~ 3/21/18
  • TMA Member: 393
Re: Itinerant Blacksmiths, Did they Exist?
« Reply #5 on: August 29, 2011, 08:28:04 PM »
There were likely "travelers" in the sense of traditional European "journeymen." If you mean an independent, self-employed blacksmith, it could be difficult--as already noted.

Here's a bit of interesting background on what it meant to be a journeyman, in order to become a master and settle down in one spot.

http://www.germany.info/Vertretung/usa/ ... an__S.html
"Anything worth doing is worth doing slowly."
Mae West

Member Number 393

Offline Loyalist Dave

  • TMA Forum Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 687
  • Total likes: 1
  • TMA Member: 800
  • Location: MD
Re: Itinerant Blacksmiths, Did they Exist?
« Reply #6 on: August 30, 2011, 10:56:32 PM »
You folks seem to have answered the question without realizing it.  

First a blacksmith was a smith, an accomplished craftsman.  You would not have found an apprentice "released", for to be released, he had become a journeyman, and then a smith.  He would've had his own tools at that point, which he had made.  IF you did find a masterless journeyman or apprentice, he either absconded, or his master died.  Forget somebody impersonating a smith when only a journeyman.  The minute they got a tough job like doing a weld, and it didn't work, or failed, their secret would be known, and they'd be run out of town.  


Lets consider the trade next.  Within the "blacksmith" trade, you have in the 18th century, farriers (horseshoe guys), nailers (they made nails), blacksmiths, and gunsmiths.  The first two can work iron, but can they temper iron, and more importantly, can they forge weld?   True, farriers were found with the army, not so much the blacksmith, but also the army is its own customer, and has a massive supply train moving with it.  The smith with an army probably didn't own his anvil or his forge.  There were also blacksmiths who specialized in other things, like chain makers..., but you find them in much more industrialized parts of the country.  

Now lets consider logistics.  The article on the German itinerant journeymen was interesting, but it was about those trades or crafts where the men go to the location of the work.  i.e. Itinerant journeyman masons must go to where the building is being built, but they don't necessarily know how to make bricks..., in Europe a brickmaker did that.  The raw materials are on site when they arrive.  

  When it comes to blacksmithing, you need coal or charcoal, a bellows, tools, iron, and..., an anvil.  THAT is huge undertaking in a country with very few roads capable of supporting wagon traffic, AND you also need..., customers.  It's a rather daunting and expensive task to move even a basic 18th century blacksmtih operation from town to town by wagon hoping the town doesn't already have a smith, and hoping to find enough customers to make the trip there profitable, with enough left over to pay for the trip to the next town.  And don't be fooled by stump anvils and such..., if you were going to do this, you would need a full sized, proper anvil..., for you have no idea what specific skills you will need when you go from job to job, town to town.  One man needs hinges, another needs some chain, another needs a fire spit, etc etc.  Now add to that the fact the higher populated colonies are also those whose wagon roads cannot be traveled for 6 months of the year due to weather, and you have a very troublesome task...., but the permanent blacksmith..., the work comes to him.  

So what we find is that permanent blacksmiths might have a shop less than a week's ride from the frontier, but not on the frontier..., for the smith needs a good many customers to keep him in business, plus raw material support, and the first rule of business is ..., location, location, location .  Which is why you can find lots of records of individuals arriving in a town, and setting up a permanent shop, or the local rich guy or guys hire a smith to come to town to set up a permanent shop.

In the 19th century, you may find such a fellow, when the availability of anvils and the much wider use of coal instead of charcoal occurs, but I doubt it in the 18th cenury, for the reasons explained above.

Now you do find itinerant copper and tin workers..., tinkers, and coppersmiths, but remember too they most often repaired items, as copper and tin is much more fragile than wrought iron.  Their logistics was much much simpler too, for the temps needed to use solder can be found in a basic fire.    

LD
It's not what you think you know; it's what you can prove.

Offline Indiana

Re: Itinerant Blacksmiths, Did they Exist?
« Reply #7 on: August 31, 2011, 07:16:47 PM »
This book takes a look at the "blacksmith wagons" on the Union Army during the Civil War.  It's an interesting read/look-through.  Eventually I'd like to build a copy of the wagon described in the book.

http://www.amazon.com/Civil-War-Blacksm ... 556&sr=8-1
"Damn the sword! When Virginia wanted a sword, I gave her one. Now she sends me a toy when I require bread!” -George Rogers Clark

Offline Rasch Chronicles

Re: Itinerant Blacksmiths, Did they Exist?
« Reply #8 on: September 06, 2011, 10:16:35 AM »
Thanks fellows for the great answers!

I had my suspicions that an itinerant blacksmith might be an anomoly if one even existed. As LD says, just the logistics alone and the ability to make it pay would be a deterent. On the other hand, moving to a new established hamlet or even a staging area would be much more likely.

Thanks again for thinking this through with me!

Best regards,
Albert “The Afghan” Rasch
« Last Edit: September 08, 2011, 01:13:51 AM by Rasch Chronicles »
"Skull Mountain" Sperwan Ghar, Panjwai District, Afghanistan
Standing Ready when the Wolves Growl at the Door...
[size=85]TMA Member #638 Expires 08/10/2012[/size]

Offline rickevans

  • TMA Forum Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 803
  • Total likes: 0
  • TMA: TMA Supporting Member #232 ....... Expires 7/5/19
  • TMA Member: 232
  • Location: GA
Re: Itinerant Blacksmiths, Did they Exist?
« Reply #9 on: September 06, 2011, 01:31:54 PM »
I picked up a copy of "Gunsmiths and Associated Tradesmen of Georgia" (I think that is the title...) and there are several biographies that tell of a gunsmith/blacksmith being run off by the blacksmith already there (in the county if not the town in question) in order to reduce/eliminate any competition.  More so with blacksmiths than with gunsmiths.

So, as LD has pointed out, it would not only be quite an undertaking to move one's shop about, it might be detrimental to ones well being to roll into an area already supporting one blacksmith.
R. C. (Rick) Evans
TMA# 232 Expires 7/5/22
Honorable Company of Horners
Contemporary Longrifle Association
Life Member NRA

Offline Loyalist Dave

  • TMA Forum Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 687
  • Total likes: 1
  • TMA Member: 800
  • Location: MD
Re: Itinerant Blacksmiths, Did they Exist?
« Reply #10 on: September 06, 2011, 02:23:50 PM »
Funny thing though..., they DID exist, in CHINA!  No really, the Chinese had the "box bellows" a bellows built into a box, that also had a compartment for tools and a stump anvil, and they would build the forge when they got to wherever, or packed one on an animal.  It seems then that the bellows, and the fuel, were the key to the appearance of the itinerant blacksmith.  Charcoal was a widely used fuel in China for many centuries, due to high population, apparently charcoal was a much more efficient manner of cooking food and heating than plain wood.  When Americans got better roads, so that wagons were more easily moved, and coal was more available, they appeared here too.  

LD
It's not what you think you know; it's what you can prove.

Offline buffcreekforge

Re: Itinerant Blacksmiths, Did they Exist?
« Reply #11 on: September 13, 2011, 11:58:21 AM »
I don't know that you would call them "itinerant", but the Lewis and Clark expedition had several blacksmiths with them.  Private John Shields, Alexander Willard & William Bratton were all described as blacksmiths in the records with Shields described as a "skilled blacksmith".  They had a portable anvil and some sort of bellows along and spent at least some time forging parts for the native's trade guns.  To travel by land and boat as the expedition did, the equipment must have been light and minimal, yet in the hands of a skilled smith, made the required repairs and tools.

Humbly Submitted
Just Dave

Offline Uncle Russ

  • TMA Contributing Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 7345
  • Total likes: 77
  • TMA Founder. Walk softly & carry a big Smoothbore!
  • TMA Member: Founder / Charter Member #004
  • Location: Columbia Basin, Washington State
Re: Itinerant Blacksmiths, Did they Exist?
« Reply #12 on: September 13, 2011, 11:44:31 PM »
Just Dave, welcome to the forum!  :shake

Good post!

Uncle Russ..
It's the many things we don't do that totally sets us apart.
TMA Co-Founder / Charter Member# 4

Offline Mick Cain

Re: Itinerant Blacksmiths, Did they Exist?
« Reply #13 on: September 24, 2011, 10:43:42 PM »
H'lo Folks,
Reading thru the post I was waiting to see the one By Just Dave. If you would want to think of a traveling smith the Lewis & Clark Journals are probraly the best Primary source to study. John Sheilds in particular seemed to have a knack with making do. from what i have gleaned all they took with them concerning a blacksmith set up was Bellows, stakes ( stump type anvils ) and associated tools. I cannot remember the chapter but these were items left at what they named " Cache creek " (my apologies if i got the name wrong ) that Merriwether Lewis listed in his journal. before crossing the Cont. Divide heading west. As far as a forge all it does is hold the fire (basic description I know) and could/would have been constructed on site be it just a hole in the ground to a wood & clay construction of sort. also supposely they found an exposed vein of coal on the upper Missouri above Fort Mandan though my beleif is they just used Charcoal.
My 2 cents worth but I love the topic.

Mick

Offline Loyalist Dave

  • TMA Forum Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 687
  • Total likes: 1
  • TMA Member: 800
  • Location: MD
Re: Itinerant Blacksmiths, Did they Exist?
« Reply #14 on: September 28, 2011, 02:42:28 PM »
That's very cool info, for it appears to suppor the idea that transport of the bellows is a major factor in travelling smiths.  

LD
It's not what you think you know; it's what you can prove.