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Author Topic: Leather Leggings  (Read 516 times)

Offline Ppanepinto

Leather Leggings
« on: March 16, 2012, 03:37:56 PM »
Hi everyone, this is my first post there. I am learning new things every time I log on. I will be filling out the membership form tonight. I am working on a kit that dates between 1750 to 1770. I'm thinking of a wide ranging individual from the New Orleans area. I was thinking about making a pair of leather leggings to help protect my legs when walking through brush. Would this be PC/HC? I know wool was use more often, but where I hunt I would like the better protection.
Paul Panepinto
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Re: Leather Leggings
« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2012, 04:02:15 PM »
Howdy pinto! :wave

Can't help with the question as how it fits in your neck of the woods, but welcome to the TMA!

Offline Ppanepinto

Re: Leather Leggings
« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2012, 04:45:23 PM »
I guess what I’m trying to do is build a persona of an extremely well travel person. I want this because I am 100% American mutt. I have Irish, German, Scottish, French, and Croatian in my bloodline. The only two things that connect all of these backgrounds are one they were all Roman Catholic and two they were all travelers. I was looking at building a background of someone that has moved all over and picked up things that worked from different parts of his adventures. I’ve seen some leggings from F&I war that looked like they were very protective, but was thinking that I would use materials that would have been on hand, such as buckskin leather and antler for buttons. Then again I could just be over thinking everything.
Paul Panepinto
Hikes in the woods to make the animals laugh
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Offline mario

Re: Leather Leggings
« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2012, 11:24:53 PM »
Welcome to the forum!


Quote from: "Ppanepinto"
I am working on a kit that dates between 1750 to 1770.

Simply put, there isn't one. Clothing styles change pretty drastically between those years.

Quote from: "Ppanepinto"
I'm thinking of a wide ranging individual from the New Orleans area.

French or Spanish? Outside of a trader, explorer or a military man, folks didn't generally range "wide". New Orleans saw an influx of Acadians in the 1740s and 1750. Spanish later on, back to French. Not an American city in the years you describe.

Quote from: "Ppanepinto"
I was thinking about making a pair of leather leggings to help protect my legs when walking through brush. Would this be PC/HC? I know wool was use more often, but where I hunt I would like the better protection.

Wool does fine with the burdocks and thorns in my neck of the woods. Leather leggings were fast disappearing once wool came onto the scene. If nothing else, wool dries faster. The leather legging thing is played up by folks who think it looks more "rustic" or "frontiersy" and by folks who thing wool doesn't work in brush for some reason.



Mario

Offline Adam Wetherington

Re: Leather Leggings
« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2012, 07:18:20 AM »
Maybe consider somebody out of the settlements in British West Florida? It stretched almost to New Orleans.

Offline trg

Re: Leather Leggings
« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2012, 10:52:01 AM »
Leather leggins were likley used to some degree in most places as was hemp, linen, and most material available but just were not the norm and probably oil tan was more popular than BT except for the NA population which rather quickly took to the cloth material as well, some things we ust do not have absolute answers on do to a lack of info or surviving examples. I have found wool to be pretty good protection in briars and blackberry patches and over all a beetter choice than leather for me, but i have always had a pair or two of leather leggins just for a change of pace in fashion.It is best to find what ever reference you can specific to your persona and location and use that as a guide if you are going for a higher level of authenticity. If you play in a sand box farther down the historic ladder like many of us it is not such an issue just be cautious when discussing the item and the commonality and/or authenticity of your choices. I did have one atrea that I got chewed up prettty bad with wool so I made a leather pair that was also higher than the historic norm, I used them with great success and if talking about them I made it clear that I could not really show any references  that these where a verifiable item for my period/place, no big deal and the enjoyable conversations went on with no rocks or bottles or knives being thrown about the camp.

Offline sse

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Re: Leather Leggings
« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2012, 11:40:14 AM »
Quote
I will be filling out the membership form tonight.
Fantastic...!  Welcome... :bl th up
Regards, sse

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Offline greyhunter

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Re: Leather Leggings
« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2012, 06:45:21 PM »
wool + burdocks= pita I have wool leggings, going to make some leather ones. :)
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Online Ironhand

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Re: Leather Leggings
« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2012, 09:35:02 PM »
Not that I know a great deal about this but an idea occurred to me. If cloth was used more than leather, what about sail cloth? It would be tough, cooler than wool and would have been readily available in your area. Basicly you would have a pair of Carhart leggings.  :P

Just thinking
Place your clothes and your weapons where you can find them in the dark.

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Offline mario

Re: Leather Leggings
« Reply #9 on: March 18, 2012, 01:30:46 AM »
Quote from: "Ironhand"
Not that I know a great deal about this but an idea occurred to me. If cloth was used more than leather, what about sail cloth? It would be tough, cooler than wool and would have been readily available in your area. Basicly you would have a pair of Carhart leggings.  :P

Just thinking

Looking at the actual historical record, nope.


And linen/hemp was used on occasion, but not they way you may think.

This blog has a good post about it.

http://buffalotrace1765.blogspot.com/20 ... gings.html

Wool leggings are not as hot as you may think. Wool breathes, allowing your body to cool itself.

Mario
« Last Edit: March 18, 2012, 01:54:42 AM by mario »

Offline mario

Re: Leather Leggings
« Reply #10 on: March 18, 2012, 01:43:19 AM »
Some period references to leggings:

"On their legs they have Indian boots, or leggings, made of coarse woolen cloth, that either are wrapped around loosely and tied with garters, or are laced upon the outside, and always come better than half way up the thigh: these are a great defence and preservative, not only against the bite of serpents and poisonous insects, but likewise against the scratches of thorns, briars, scrubby bushes and underwood, with which this whole country is infested and overspread."

J.F.D. Smyth, Tour In The United States of America, 1784.


"Above the moccasin all the Indians wear what are called leggings, which reach from the instep to the middle of the thigh. They are commonly made of blue or scarlet cloth..." [in the 18th century, "cloth" meant wool 99% of the time]

Isaac Weld, Travels Through the States Of North America, 1799.

"Leggers, leggins, or Indian spatterdashes, are usually made of frieze or other coarse woolen cloth;"

Captain John Knox, Historical Journal, 1757.


"The Indians, who have any dealings with the English or American traders, and all of them have that live in the neighborhood, and to the east of the Mississippi, and in the neighborhood of the great lakes to the north-west, have now totally laid aside the use of furs and skins in their dress, except for their shoes or moccasins, and sometimes for their legging, as they find they can exchange them to advantage for blankets and woolen cloths, &C. which they consider likewise as much more agreeable-and commodious materials for wearing apparel."

Isaac Weld, Travels Through the States of North America, 1799.



"People that travel much in the Woods wear leggins of coarse wollen cloth..."

Nicholas Cresswell, June 1776



Although memories written down decades after the fact are suspect, here's one for leather leggings:

"Declarant states that he was then stationed at Fort Pitt, the place aforesaid. Declarant states that in obedience to the order of his said Captain Brady, he proceeded to tan his thighs and legs with wild cherry and white oak bark and to equip himself after the following manner, to Wit, a breechcloth, leather legging, moccasins and a cap made out of a racoon skin, with the feathers of a hawk, painted after the manner of an Indian warrior. His face was painted red, with three black stripes across his cheeks, which was a signification of war. Declarant states that Captain Brady's company was about sixty-four in number, all painted after the manner aforesaid."

George Roush, 19th Century Pension Papers. Describing His Clothing In 1777.


Mario

Offline Roaddog

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Re: Leather Leggings
« Reply #11 on: March 18, 2012, 08:55:37 AM »
That's some darn good info Mario. Thanks!
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Online Ironhand

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Re: Leather Leggings
« Reply #12 on: March 18, 2012, 09:02:10 AM »
Quote from: "mario"
Looking at the actual historical record, nope.
Mario


Mario,

Clearly, based on your research in the surviving documentation such and option appears to be unlikely or unusual. I can accept that premise. As stated this is not really my area of study.

What I find troublesome is this absolute dismissal. Given the dispersed population and limited literacy rate of this era the surviving historical record can rarely be considered complete. A survey of the extant literature by any one individual, no mater how extensive, can not be taken as grounds for a statement of absolutes.
Place your clothes and your weapons where you can find them in the dark.

   Lazarus Long

Offline Capt. Jas.

Re: Leather Leggings
« Reply #13 on: March 18, 2012, 09:55:03 AM »
Quote from: "Ironhand"
Quote from: "mario"
Looking at the actual historical record, nope.
Mario


Mario,

Clearly, based on your research in the surviving documentation such and option appears to be unlikely or unusual. I can accept that premise. As stated this is not really my area of study.

What I find troublesome is this absolute dismissal. Given the dispersed population and limited literacy rate of this era the surviving historical record can rarely be considered complete. A survey of the extant literature by any one individual, no mater how extensive, can not be taken as grounds for a statement of absolutes.

While it is true that we are only able to look thru a very dirty and foggy window into the past, it is best not to hinder our views of that which WAS with supposition and what only MAY have been.
The goal is to look at all areas of information whether it be written, surviving with provenence, dug, painted, etc. in light of when, where and who.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2012, 10:15:48 AM by Capt. Jas. »

Offline Adam Wetherington

Re: Leather Leggings
« Reply #14 on: March 18, 2012, 10:09:15 AM »
If you can find any documentation of sailcloth being used, then you are good. If you ask others if they know of any documentation and don't like the answer you get that's too bad. While I may not agree 100% with the conclusions Mario comes up with sometimes, I will not dispute the fact that he has researched most of these topics far more than some of us (certainly myself) and can readily offer numerous examples supporting his positions.

You asked a question and got an answer with a bunch of documentation to boot.

If it makes you feel better I say go ahead and wear leather or wool or sailcloth or whatever you fancy, as long as you are out having fun and you are content then so be it. Just don't go telling folks that your kit is the way it would have been back then with any degree of certainty......