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Author Topic: a couple of winter kit assemblies  (Read 10137 times)

Offline greyhunter

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Re: a couple of winter kit assemblies
« Reply #15 on: December 16, 2016, 09:06:52 AM »
Nice pics, should post those of breech plug removal to TMA fb page to show how it should be done! Along with your comments on how to do it.  :hairy
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Online rollingb

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Re: a couple of winter kit assemblies
« Reply #16 on: December 16, 2016, 09:21:10 AM »
Quote from: "greyhunter"
Nice pics, should post those of breech plug removal to TMA fb page to show how it should be done! Along with your comments on how to do it.  :hairy

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Online Rob DiStefano

Re: a couple of winter kit assemblies
« Reply #17 on: December 16, 2016, 09:34:19 AM »
to be fair, with the right tools, investarms breech plugs are really easy to remove and replace, and one of the reasons i prefer their trad ml's.  but i've never been able to pull off a spanish traditions or cva breech plug, it's like they're welded on.  i've only fair success with pedersoli plugs, where some will absolutely not budge no matter what.

i have two sets of plug removal tools.  (1) a special 15/16" socket for the patent breeches of offshore guns (they're sold on ebay) along with an 18" reed corp flat jawed wrench (not cheap, but well worth getting!), both seen in the pics above. (2) a rice barrel company variable size socket for standard breeches that uses a 3' black pipe "handle" for good leverage, and so far it has removed some of the most stubborn breech plugs off barrels with rusted threads.  

i also use a rice barrel company octagonal vise barrel clamp pads, as shown in the pix above.  positively locks in the barrel without marring it any manner.  each clamp pad side has a neodymium disc magnet embedded in it to keep the pad tight to the vise jaws.

for those interested, rice barrel company barrel tools can be found at this page - RICE MUZZLE LOADING BARREL COMPANY

Online Rob DiStefano

Re: a couple of winter kit assemblies
« Reply #18 on: December 16, 2016, 11:04:42 AM »
GPR assembled ...



... will now pull off the barrel, vise the stock, begin rasping down the proud wood.

 :bl th up

Offline Ohio Joe

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Re: a couple of winter kit assemblies
« Reply #19 on: December 16, 2016, 01:27:03 PM »
Just amazing what one finds when pulling those plugs. You do a very nice job for sure!  :lt th
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Offline Hanshi

Re: a couple of winter kit assemblies
« Reply #20 on: December 16, 2016, 03:41:03 PM »
Back when I had to pull a breech plug last year, I just wrapped the barrel in a thick sheet of lead and clamped it in my vise.  Of course this was a longrifle with a Green Mountain barrel and not an investarms.
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Online rollingb

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Re: a couple of winter kit assemblies
« Reply #21 on: December 16, 2016, 03:55:55 PM »
Quote from: "Rob DiStefano"
pulled the patent breech on the GPR, cleaned out the proofing residue, reinstalled with nikal anti-seize lube, did the same with the vent liner.  i'll assemble this gun, then take off the barrel and lock and begin rasping the proud wood down to meet the iron furniture.  i'll continue working with this gun - staining, oiling, reassembling and tuning the lock and triggers - as it belongs to a friend and i know he'll enjoy getting it as soon as possible.  8)

I'd be interested in knowing,... if water readily cuts/dissolves that proofing residue????

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Online Rob DiStefano

Re: a couple of winter kit assemblies
« Reply #22 on: December 16, 2016, 06:19:09 PM »
Quote from: "rollingb"
Quote from: "Rob DiStefano"
pulled the patent breech on the GPR, cleaned out the proofing residue, reinstalled with nikal anti-seize lube, did the same with the vent liner.  i'll assemble this gun, then take off the barrel and lock and begin rasping the proud wood down to meet the iron furniture.  i'll continue working with this gun - staining, oiling, reassembling and tuning the lock and triggers - as it belongs to a friend and i know he'll enjoy getting it as soon as possible.  8)

I'd be interested in knowing,... if water readily cuts/dissolves that proofing residue????

i used LVL and it easily cut it.  i would think straight water would also work, too.

Online Rob DiStefano

Re: a couple of winter kit assemblies
« Reply #23 on: December 19, 2016, 07:08:40 PM »
LMF american walnut stain, TOTW original oil finish, now to set it all up and tune the lock ...


Offline amm1851

Re: a couple of winter kit assemblies
« Reply #24 on: December 19, 2016, 09:28:24 PM »
Looks great!  Nice work.
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Offline Ohio Joe

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Re: a couple of winter kit assemblies
« Reply #25 on: December 19, 2016, 09:58:09 PM »
Quote from: "amm1851"
Looks great!  Nice work.

I agree as well!  :hairy
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Offline Uncle Russ

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Re: a couple of winter kit assemblies
« Reply #26 on: December 20, 2016, 10:39:06 PM »
Very nice Rob!!!

 :hairy

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Offline Roaddog

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Re: a couple of winter kit assemblies
« Reply #27 on: December 21, 2016, 06:36:26 AM »
Ya sure do a nice job in a short time Rob. :toast  :rt th
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Online Rob DiStefano

Re: a couple of winter kit assemblies
« Reply #28 on: December 21, 2016, 07:48:39 AM »
thank ye gents.  i always enjoy working on these "kit" investarms guns.  the only real work is knocking down the wood to meet the furniture and all it takes is a small rasp and LOTS of elbow grease ... and, there is no pressing requirement to take down any of the wood, other than for aesthetics.  the fit of the parts is extraordinarily good, nothing special to do, they all just fit into place and no inlet work required at all.  so, i highly recommend these "kits" and the savings is in the order of a good hundred buck$.

i pretty much use the LMF stain for this work and this is the first time i've used their american walnut flavor - wow, it's *perfect* for that deep olde tyme dark walnut look when it goes onto real walnut, with very little red in the hue.  gonna use it on the beech wood of the DGW kit gun next.  the other LMF stain colors i've used - lancaster maple, walnut, nut brown - all exhibit lots of red, which sometimes can be a bit overwhelming.

to me, there are 3 stages, or degrees of lock tuning.  i'm gonna be preaching to the choir here for the most part, but this might be of help to a few folks ...  

the first and most accessible tuning is to clean the entire lock inside and out, dry out, and spot oil the bearing surfaces, then set up a good flint in the cock jaws and set the proper angle.  along with a proper flint, the frizzen's hardness factor is important for throwing good sparks, but that also requires the proper gun flint setting.  the flint is adjusted so that at half cock, and with the frizzen down over the pan, the biting edge of the flint is almost touching the frizzen and barely misses the pan when down all the way.  as to whether the flint should be bevel up or down only matters for whatever works best (that is, making the best sparks).  all of this is a must-do, or all bets are off on ignition reliability.

the more invasive lock tuning means a total disassembly, which should leave a flat lock plate that *might* need to be levelled (hammering and/or filed) and polished to maybe 600 grit, in a progression of grits that might hafta start at 120 or 220, but at the least 320.  all the touching/bearing sides of moving lock components also get polished up to 600 grit.  all load bearing surfaces should get a very light, very careful fine stoning for polish only and not for removal of metal.  after reassembly, all moving joined surfaces get quality oil lubed.  so what does all of this accomplish?  depends.  if the lock moving part surfaces were really rough and gritty, the benefits of overall lock speed would be visibly noticed, but if the parts were reasonably smooth to begin with, probably at best a few extra milliseconds of cock fall speed, that's all.  i've done all of this to siler and l&r locks and it can make an increase in both lock smoothness and speed.  it should be noted that the investarms locks are not of "vintage" architecture and their plates have some welded components which will hamper any plate levelling.  they also employ a coil mainspring instead of a leaf spring, which for me is just fine, and there's a plate that covers the tumbler and fly that needs to be removed, no big deal.  

the major lock tuning means adjusting its mechanical geometry.  this is a gunsmith's job, not for a hobbyist, because it means changing the angles and bearing surface areas of the tumbler notches for the positions of fire, half cock and full cock.  the steel and hardening qualities of the tumbler, sear, fly, and bridle must be of superior quality to begin, and if not they need to be properly hardened after the modifications are accomplished.  

anyhoo, weren't much needed to make this lock work well and shower sparks into the pan using a good "tom fuller" english flint of the proper size.  this GPR is for my bud dave in tennessee.  i think he's gonna be a happy camper and will make some meat with it next year.

Offline sse

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Re: a couple of winter kit assemblies
« Reply #29 on: December 27, 2016, 04:46:43 PM »
Great presentation of the process, Rob...!  Thanks for all the pics and effort.

Regards, sse
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