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Author Topic: The rifle that killed Tecumseh  (Read 143 times)

Online rollingb

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The rifle that killed Tecumseh
« on: February 09, 2019, 12:45:26 PM »
 
Fort Wayne Daily Sentinel
Fort Wayne, Indiana
Friday, November 27, 1874


An Old Indian Killer.

INTERESTING EVENTS IN THE HISTORY
OF AN ANCIENT RIFLE.

[From the Louisville Courier-Journal.]

Mr. Andrew Whitley, of St. Louis, en route to Lexington, visited the Courier-Journal office yesterday with a rare relic of the earliest days of Kentucky.
It was a rifle, made by Jacob Young, of Virginia, in 1741, and owned by Mr. Whitley's grandfather, Wm. Whitley, who was one of the first white men that came to Kentucky, and was a companion of Daniel Boone.

The Gun is as much a curiosity, on account of its great length, as it is a prize on account of its great age, its history, and recent associations. It is the old-time flintlock pattern, about five feet five inches in length, with a silver plate mounting on the stock, bearing the inscription:.... "W. and E. W.," which stands for William and Easter Whitley.

The gun, in the days of its usefulness, was a piece of the family property, and the wife learned as well as the husband to coolly draw the bead on a deer or an Indian, whenever occasion required.
The weapon is of large bore, with perfect rifle, and the stock and ferruled rammer are apparently in perfectly sound condition.

Accompanying the gun is a large powder-horn of beautiful shape, carrying a large supply of powder, and suiting the use of the hunter as well as the ordinary small hunting flask or horn, its shape being as well adapted
to the purpose.

The horn is well known throughout the State, and bears on one side the following verses, carved in the bony substance.
The words composed, by Wm. Whitley himself, and will doubtless be remembered
by many readers of the Courier-Journal familiar with the lives of the early settlers:....
William Whitley, I am your horn;
The truth I love, a lie I scorn.
Fill me with, best of powder,
Ile make your rifle crack the lowder.
See how the dread terrifick ball
Makes Indians bleed and toreys fall.
You with powder Ile supply
For to defend your Liberty.


The belt to which the horn is attached is heavily ornamented with beads made of the quills of porcupines, which are said to have been killed in Kentucky.

After passing through all the scenes of terror enacted on the dark and bloody ground, incident to the settlement of the commonwealth by the whites, the faithful old rifle was associated with events which add great interest to its history.

William Whitley was a soldier in the war of 1812, and directed the bullets of his old-time friend against the British and Indians at the battle of the Thames, Canada.
Here he was killed in the thick of the fight, but the gun was preserved and returned to his people in Kentucky.

Some time before the recent civil war the present owner came to this State, found the gun in the possession of Mrs. Sallie Ann Higgins, near Crab Orchard, and purchased it at a cost of $150. He carried the relic to his home in St. Louis, where he kept it until the breaking out of the war, when he was arrested at Camp Jackson during the demonstration there on the llth. day of May, 1861, and was for some time a prisoner in Federal hands.
A short time previous to this occurrence, while contemplating entering the Confederate army, he placed the gun in the keeping of a man named Bates, the janitor of Wyman's Museum, St. Louis.
A short time afterward the museum changed hands, and Bates went to Canada, taking the gun with him.

At the close of the war Whitley returned home, and immediately afterward commenced looking after Bates and his gun, but all efforts to find the man proved fruitless until about twelve months ago, when Bates returned to St. Louis, and was engaged in the business of stuffing birds and animals for a natural history depot. His name appeared soon after in the public prints, and by this means his where about was revealed to Mr. Whitley. He went immediately to the place, found Mr. Bates, who readily recognized him as the owner of the gun, and in due time delivered to him the valuable family relic, which he had kept in good order for twelve years.

On returning to Kentucky on a visit a few days ago, Mr. Whitley went down to Crab Orchard and obtained from Mrs. Higgins the horn and belt, which were the only acconterments belonging to the highly prized piece.

Mr. Whitley has refused an offer of $500 for the gun, and would be loth to part with it at any price.
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Online Uncle Russ

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Re: The rifle that killed Tecumseh
« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2019, 01:51:52 PM »
Great piece of reading, and a well-traveled rifle.
Being made in 1741, selling at the fantastic price of $150 just prior to the Civil War, which must be considered a fortune back then....

 :hairy

Reading this set my old mind to wandering about several things.....if this rifle was worth $500 back in 1874, what'da think it might be worth today?
Also, if it was practically "priceless" back in that day, it would be even more so today, don'tcha think?

Very interesting reading!
I really like the inscription on the horn. However, there is one part of this inscription I would like to comment on.
"fill me with the best of powder,
it'll make your rifle crack even louder".


For all the younger. and newer folks to muzzleloading reading this, please take note;
There was a time, during my own learning curve on this same subject, that "Load 'em till they crack" was an accepted practice back in the 1950's, and 60's....and, to the best of my knowledge, it is still in practice in several parts of the wide-open Western parts of this country today, with some of the more "advanced" shooters.
By stating this I am certainly not, by any means, promoting the practice... loading by the manufacturer's recommendation is the very best way to load today's muzzleloaders, so stick with it.
I'm only saying this about the "crack" because I know it to be a fact.
There are other oldtimers here who are well aware of this practice.

If you are ever tempted to do this, be wary, wary careful, or better yet, don't do it!!!!
The meager gains of doing this do not outweigh the awful dangers.

Russ...

It's the many things we don't do that totally sets us apart.
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Online Winter Hawk

Re: The rifle that killed Tecumseh
« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2019, 08:58:57 PM »
I may be wrong; no, probably AM wrong, but I was lead to believe that the change in the report of a rifle came when it was loaded stout enough to exceed the speed of sound, i.e. breaking the sound barrier. I don't remember where I heard that, probably the Internet in which case it MUST be true!   :laffing

~Kees~
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USN June 1962-Nov. 65, USS Philip, DD-498

Dues paid to 02 Jan. 2027

Online rollingb

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Re: The rifle that killed Tecumseh
« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2019, 09:15:30 PM »
I may be wrong; no, probably AM wrong, but I was lead to believe that the change in the report of a rifle came when it was loaded stout enough to exceed the speed of sound, i.e. breaking the sound barrier. I don't remember where I heard that, probably the Internet in which case it MUST be true!   :laffing

~Kees~

Anything faster than 1,123 FPS is faster than the "speed of sound".  :hairy

Most long guns can easily reach that speed,.... or even FASTER.  :hairy

You'll also get a "boom" from practically any/every load that is below the "speed of sound" because of the explosive nature of gunpowder.  :bl th up
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Offline Ohio Joe

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Re: The rifle that killed Tecumseh
« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2019, 09:45:36 PM »
Kees,  you're not thinking about that old adage of loading a flintlock long rifle to its optimum load are you - about your load being stout enough when the shot makes a loud sharp "crack" noise when fired?

I only ever did this one time with one of my .45 caliber flintlocks and I saw no advantage in the extra powder it took to get there. Can't remember now how many grains it took to get that sharp "cracking" noise? That was years ago.
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Online Uncle Russ

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Re: The rifle that killed Tecumseh
« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2019, 04:18:32 AM »
Kees,  you're not thinking about that old adage of loading a flintlock long rifle to its optimum load are you - about your load being stout enough when the shot makes a loud sharp "crack" noise when fired?

I only ever did this one time with one of my .45 caliber flintlocks and I saw no advantage in the extra powder it took to get there. Can't remember now how many grains it took to get that sharp "cracking" noise? That was years ago.

Joe, just remember that all who wander are not necessarily lost.

I too have wandered down that same road, and I have done the very same thing.
But that was back when self-appointed experts were handing out information they shouldn't have been handing out.
It was back when good, solid, information was hard to find, and every local library seemed to have the book, The Muzzleloading Cap Lock Rifle listed as "checked out" putting you on a very long waiting list for your turn, as the book was out-of-print.
I got my very own on "Christmas 1969, as a gift", and trust me, I have read it to death, and enjoyed every moment of it.
This "Load 'em till they crack" business started when we the shooter had to separate the wheat from the chafe in order to be safe with our own firearms, and that was unfortunate IMO.
It seems that as far as information is concerned, we now live in the good old days.

I do apologize for Hi-Jacking this thread, but that "Load 'em til they crack" thing was done by expert rifleman who knew exactly how their rifles would handle such charges. Today, with the many imports, we can never be sure. There are many rifles out there that will handle these loads, but if you don't know, or you're not sure, it would be best to have a competent Gun Smith check your rifle before you ever attempt it.
My advice is very simple, just don't do it, it's not necessary.

Russ...
It's the many things we don't do that totally sets us apart.
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Offline Ohio Joe

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Re: The rifle that killed Tecumseh
« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2019, 11:06:33 AM »
Kees,  you're not thinking about that old adage of loading a flintlock long rifle to its optimum load are you - about your load being stout enough when the shot makes a loud sharp "crack" noise when fired?

I only ever did this one time with one of my .45 caliber flintlocks and I saw no advantage in the extra powder it took to get there. Can't remember now how many grains it took to get that sharp "cracking" noise? That was years ago.

Joe, just remember that all who wander are not necessarily lost.

I too have wandered down that same road, and I have done the very same thing.
But that was back when self-appointed experts were handing out information they shouldn't have been handing out.
It was back when good, solid, information was hard to find, and every local library seemed to have the book, The Muzzleloading Cap Lock Rifle listed as "checked out" putting you on a very long waiting list for your turn, as the book was out-of-print.
I got my very own on "Christmas 1969, as a gift", and trust me, I have read it to death, and enjoyed every moment of it.
This "Load 'em till they crack" business started when we the shooter had to separate the wheat from the chafe in order to be safe with our own firearms, and that was unfortunate IMO.
It seems that as far as information is concerned, we now live in the good old days.

I do apologize for Hi-Jacking this thread, but that "Load 'em til they crack" thing was done by expert rifleman who knew exactly how their rifles would handle such charges. Today, with the many imports, we can never be sure. There are many rifles out there that will handle these loads, but if you don't know, or you're not sure, it would be best to have a competent Gun Smith check your rifle before you ever attempt it.
My advice is very simple, just don't do it, it's not necessary.

Russ...

Couldn't agree more with you Russ.  :bl th up

Here's one for the books; (You and I have done this and I'm guessing many of us have) we can hunt deer with our hunting load down in a draw or canyon and guess what,,, yep - take that shot and "crack"..... I personally believe it has to do with atmosphere conditions and echo - nothing more... Just my opinion of course.  :shake

I also keep a copy of Ned Roberts book and have read it over and over... :hairy
Chadron Fur Trade Days Rendezvous / "Ol' Candle Snuffer"
"Museum of the Fur Trade" Chadron, Nebraska

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Re: The rifle that killed Tecumseh
« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2019, 02:10:09 PM »
Love the article. Primary source material cannot be beat, and there's just a lot of wonderful information here for those of us seeking historical accuracy in portraying this time period. Thanks for sharing it...I want more!
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