Miniature Red River cart

[rollingb]

Any of you folks know where I can get plans and parts, wooden wheels and axle for a miniature (down-scaled) Red River Cart (aka) Metis cart, that can be pulled by a pony sized horse? I've checked on the innernet, and so far I haven't found anything.

I think such a cart would add to the spirit of modern rendezvous, plus provide rides for the kids.

[SAWMA]

The wagon would be pretty easy to build from looking at pictures. Rustic is rustic, you can get wheels from this place.
http://www.superjakes.com/WOODEN%20WAGON%20WHEELS.htm

[woodman]

Shouldn't be to hard to scale down to the size you want. Just need to decide what size wheels then make it proportanial to the wheels.
  Woodman

[rollingb]

Thanks SAWMA, those are the kind of wheels I'm looking for.

[woodman]

Rollingb
  Do a search on Google for wooden wagon wheels and do a little looking around. There was several pages of makers and sources that came up.
   A lot of the red river type carts also had solid wood wheels wrapped in iron.
 Woodman

[RichW]

Museum of the Fur Trade Quarterly has a back issue FS that has several pages of scale drawings of a Red River cart.

19:3      Red River and Other Carts

[rollingb]

Thanks Woodman, and RichW,.... I'm building a "training" cart right now and hope to get my ol' nag broke to drive sometime this summer :rt th  

Taking my time and building a nice "replica" Red River cart, might be'a great "project" for next winter,... that'd give me plenty of time to gather the "parts" needed, and work up a set of plans from the drawings.

Thanks fellas,
YMHS
Rondo

[Bountyhunter]

Google Metis and Red River Carts.  Somewhere here I have a set of plans that they sent me.   You can contact them from a website, they have a good PR department.

They have an annual rondy with a lot of carts.  They also have a "trail ride" of sorts for the carts.  

If you contact the Metis, they will assist.  I got sidetracked before I got my cart done, but it aint rocket science if you have a good shop to work in.  Getting all the spokes the same and getting the proper cast on the wheels is the basic part.  Amish wagon makers will make the wheels for you.

The Red River Cart is almost identical to the Mexican Caretta, other than the Caretta usually had solid wheels where the Red River cart had spoked wheels.  The first Red River carts had the wheels bound with green buffalo hide so that when it dried, it pulled them together very strongly.  

I already mentioned it, but if you build one, the rim of the wheels sets out a formulated distance from the center of the hub.  There are several reasons for that, mainly the strength of the wheel while turning.  Plans are available on the Internet for $10.

[rollingb]

Thanks for the info Bountyhunter. :rt th

Rondo

[Uncle Russ]

Rondo, Now we both know ol'Molly ain't going go for hauling a bunch of yellin kids around in that fancy cart, but iff'n it wuz that ya could stop by and give an old man and his dog a ride into town, I bet ol'Molly would find that right proper!

[Bountyhunter]

I have a bunch of really big Osage Orange trees (hedge) on the ranch, and I was thinking that the wood was harder than the hubs of Hell.  Then it struck me that if it is that hard and oily then it should work for wheel hubs, or axles.

So, I got to thinking, something there needs to be sacrificial.  If you wear both the hub and the axle out, then you have a lot of rebuilding to do.  If the hub doesn’t wear but the axle does, it is much simpler to replace.  

So, since the second thing that I have a lot of is Burr Oak,  big old trees about 300 years old, that are 3’ at the stump and 80 feet tall.  Lots of them go 30 feet before they branch.  Makes a guys mind just buzz don’t it?  So oak axles would be pretty easy to make, several of them while you are at it.  They wear and the hub doesnt, and a couple of bolts will let you replace one when it need it.  You get a demerit if they find your grease zerk.

So, next in line is Elm, what you call pi$$ elm.  Light, tough tangled grain that you can not break or split.  I was thinking of making the frame and tongue from Elm, the axle from oak and the wheel hubs from hedge.  A lot of the old wagons had cast iron sleeves in the hubs, not the early Metis, but perhaps the later ones.  I figured that if the hubs got sloppy, I was going to bore them and put sleeves in them so they could be greased like the prairie wagons.

Lots a So’s here aint there?  The Carettas had smaller wheels than the Metis cart, and the ones in this area are either plyed up or cut from like 3’ cottonwood stumps.  That’s all they had………The Caretta at Bents Fort has spoked wheels like a Metis Cart.  I saw a caretta by Albuquerque that had plyed wheels,,,,planks laid out one direction with a second layer going crosswise with a third layer going like the first.  I think they were then riveted together with iron rivets, and had buffalo rawhide “tires”.  

If you google metis cart plans, there are some on the internet for $10.  I would also speculate that the carts changed with the times.  I don’t know how long they were used, but I would opt for a late model with modern accessories………
 


You might get a contact here.
http://www.itsatrip.org/media/press-rel ... easeID=137

[RichW]

Eastern elm is the traditional hub wood.  Nobody has mentioned rawhide yet... a major component of RR carts.  I wonder if they made rawhide bushings?

An old guy I once knew said they used to rebuild model T's back in the depression using rawhide bearings... which would last long enough for a hot date Saturday night.  

[cb]

Rattlesnake Jack built a down sized Red River cart a few years ago - his email is http://www.metisresourcecentre.mb.ca/history/cart.htm

The carretas of the SW used mostly cotton wood in their construction including the huge wheels which were often 6-8' in diameter.

You can get the plans for a Red River cart here http://www.ruralheritage.com/plans/planlist.htm
and here's a pic of one built from the plans http://www.wildhorsebooks.com/Plans/Col ... _River.JPG

[rollingb]

Rondo, Now we both know ol'Molly ain't going go for hauling a bunch of yellin kids around in that fancy cart, but iff'n it wuz that ya could stop by and give an old man and his dog a ride into town, I bet ol'Molly would find that right proper!

Russ,... I think ol' Molly might just maybe tolerate them yell'n kids,... if the driver'll let her have a cup of "apple pie" between rides. (she gets "purty mellow" after about 4 cups  

[rollingb]

Bountyhunter, this "think'n" about the Metis carts is something fairly new to me, but I tend to agree with your think'n in the way of using different woods for uneven "wear". A person sure wouldn't want the wheels and axle BOTH, wear'n out at the same time.

I don't know if I'll ever get such a project (as building a Metis cart) started, but it sure is interesting just think'n about it.