Thinkin of a Fowler...

[Sir Michael]

Mark, I'd tend to call what you have a Fowler without seeing any pictures.

A Trade Gun was an inexpensive Gun (typically smooth bore but rifles were also made) made specifically for trading to indians for hides, meet, or what ever.  I'll go out on a limb and say that there were initially two 'schools' if you will of trade guns, English and French (although the guns themselves may have come from any number of countries)  The French trade guns most likely appeared first with the English after that.  The English through the NorthWest Company and the Hundson's Bay Company pretty much created a lock on trade gun sales through what is commonly known as the 'NorthWest Gun'  

A simple description of a trade gun would be a simple round barrel on a full stock, with a a flat sheet brass butt plate held on with nails not screws (or no but plate at all), a large 'tower' type flint lock, typically a serpent side plate (although other designs were used), a simple pinned trigger, an oversized brass trigger guard (depending on time frame), it may or may not have a front sight of some sort, and it may or may not have a rear sight (that one is subject to hot debate by those that have not done their research).

Again, the nose cap, cheek rest, and nice side plate pretty much take it out of the trade gun category in my mind but like I said I'd have to see it to really tell.

[mark davidson]

Sir Michael,
   As always, thank you for the very informative answer. If the word, "plain," is involved in a trade gun then mine is anything but plain.  It does not have any engraving or inlay in metal or wood but it has a really nice piece of  wood with lots of extras and no plain nail-on anything. I did put front and rear sights both on in case I wanted to shoot a big ole .72 round ball. It has a beaver front sight and a standard notched rear sight placed right at the front edge of where the octogan ends. Anyway, thanks for the info. :-)

[Capt. Jas.]

Sounds like you have a generic smooth bored gun  on a rifle stock like that offered by some gun sellers down MS way. I would not call it a fowling piece but probably the closest historical description I could give it would be a smooth rifle. It sounds like it has all rifle hardware. Below are some pics and a link to originals that may give you your answer about the differences in fowling guns and trade guns. Early trade guns resemble very very cheap fowling guns in many ways.

regards

English fowling pieces


English trade gun
http://www.flintriflesmith.com/Antiques ... adegun.htm

[Sir Michael]

To further your knowledge, Google in quotes "English Trade Gun" "French Trade Gun" and English Fowler"  and go to the image page for each search and you will get a boat load of pictures of each type of gun.

[Capt. Jas.]

I thought that might me a good idea as well Sir Michael until I checked.

The use of the word "fowler" in a google search will probably yield more repros that may or may not be correct as it's a modern term.

Actually I just tried to google the other terms and came up with mostly modern repros shown also. Most of the first hits are of cheapo indian cartoon guns and modern kit guns that are of questionable authenticity.

I always suggest looking at originals for study and comparison as even the best repro is only a copy of the real thing.

[mark davidson]

So what specifically makes a fowler a fowler?  Is it the hardware, the stock or some unique combination of the above. Honestly I told my MS maker that I just wanted a 12 guage shotgun.  So maybe I ended up with a 72 cal. rifle??? Either way I am very happy with it and it shoots shot like a shotgun for shooting at fowls so I guess to me in my newness and MS ignorance that  makes it a fowler!  :-)

[Sir Michael]

Capt Jas.  All you have to do is add the term antique or museum to the search and you'll get a boat load or originals if that's what you want to look at.  There are also a number of on-line gun dealers that sell original fowlers as well.

These guys carry a range of original fowlers from time to time usually with good detail photos.

http://www.drake.net/products/1/Vintage-and-Modern-Sportings-Arms/Antique-Rifles-and-Fowlers?filter_custom_field_1=sporting%20arms&filter_custom_field_2=antique&title=Vintage%20and%20Modern%20Sportings%20Arms/Antique%20Rifles%20and%20Fowlers

[Capt. Jas.]

Yeah I know. I only mentioned it as I just did not want anyone to go down the wrong path and get incorrect information.

[Quartermaster James]

Also helpful to weed out unwanted hits when using Google is the minus sign or hyphen ("-") in front of terms you wish to exclude.

As in "flintlock fowler -reproduction -replica" (yes, it can be used multiple times.

It's not perfect, of course. It only excludes those pages that actually use the selected terms, so a page describing a reproduction that does not mention it is a reproduction will still come through. But it helps.

Play around with it and see the difference.

[Capt. Jas.]

Thanks Sir Michael and QM James for the google help. I had learned to use that same formula with ebay lookups a few years ago QM James. did not realize it would work for google. I have found quite a few things on searches but have had to sift thru a pile of muck to do it.

[hankaye]

...one that would be appropriate (if I decide to), go reenacting  in the time period of Late 1780's to early 1800's. Prior to 1810.
If I felt comfortable enough to do it myself, Who's KIT would you'ens suggest. If I.m not feelin comfortable Who's finished (in the white), would you suggest.
PLEASE, when ya suggest state your why's and if ya got a Nay ta say state yer whynots.
ALL opinions are the responsibility of the opinionated.
I will ponder all considerably,
hankaye

[/quote]

Gettin back to my original question...
Have been in touch with BOTH Steve Zhin and Mike Brooks.
I am aware that 'Fowler' is a term that is ...well... in use, and describes the 'type' of firearm that I am looking to aquire.
I feel like C. Eastwood in the movie 'The Chosen' in the scean where he get's his pistol and a cup to shoot at, misses gets his rifle, misses again then gets his shotgun and hits the cup. With Macular degeneration in my strong eye looking thru 2 sights is akin to stickin the square peg in the round hole. The blurry spot is right where the front sight should be. Ergo, smoothbore, shotgun or fowler whatever ya chose ta call it. I prefer the New England style, it is more pleasing to MY eye. I could have chosen a Fusil de Chase, not what on of my tightwad MAINER (Maniac?), ansestors would have had made for him.I could look for an English fowler, again, NOT what they would have made for them.
Sorry. Ya'll have gone far off the path that I was lookin to wander down. Was lookin for some information about kits or builders. Looking for information about what I asked about NOT what ya'll may have, perchance, to assume what I ment. I ment what I asked. That's all.
Someone was going to get me a number or website for someone else and... still waiting.
I feel I must appoligize here as well. I know that each and every one of you that has responded has done so in an attempt to help. For that I am greatfull, truley, I am. If I have bruised an ego, it was not my intention.
hankaye
Please forgive any mispellings. Spellcheck has left the website again...