Newbie Custom Flintlock Questions

[boltgun71]

Hey folks!  I'm getting ready to place a order for my first flintlock rifle.  I wanted to run it buy you all here and see what you think.  It will be built by Sitting Fox Custom Muzzleloaders.  I'm wanting a Southern Mountain Style Rifle and here is the specs so far,

.50 cal, 42"x 7/8" Green Mountain barrel, Siler lock, steel trim(full buttplate, nose cap, toe plate, and entry thimble), Curly Maple 3 stock(his mid grade of 5 grades) with 14" LOP, double set triggers, oil finished stock, and brown finished metal.

A few questions.

I can get the barrel swamped for an extra $150.  Cash is tight right now but I could probably swing it if its worth doing.  As I understand it this only makes it more balanced and will not affect accuracy.  What would you all suggest?

I've decided on the Siler lock.  While researching the Siler lock I came across improved versions of them with taller hammers that increase the striking surface of the flints, supposedly creating more sparks, resulting in a faster and more reliable ignition.  Is this an upgrade thats worth anything?

And for sights I have a few choices I would like your input on.  As for the front blade I can get either all steel or a silver blade set in a brass base.  For the rear sight I can have either the "pronghorn" style sight or simple square peice with a notch.  Which would you choose and why?

The rifle comes standard with a stainless vent liner.  Would a upgrade to the Chamber White Lightning be worthwhile?

Oh, and the barrel diameter was recommended to be 7/8".  A diameter of 15/16" is also available.  Is their any reason to go up to the slightly larger barrel?

I will be using the rifle for hunting, target shooting, and Rev War reenacting.  For the Rev War reenacting I portray a militia Rifleman/frontier scout.  I want an accurate and dependable rifle capable of doing well on the range and still be a close depiction to the rifles carried by the men I intend to portray.  I know not all the options I have chosen for the rifle were common then but as I understand it they weren't unknown of either(except for the vent liner which I believe is modern?).

Any input and suggestions you all can give on the rifle is greatly appreciatted.  I appreciatte you all reading my post and taking the time to help.

[Billd]

I would spend the money ona swamped barrel, my choice would be a Rice "B" weight.  If money's tight, go with plainer wood. Walnut's nice and PC and much easier to touch up the scratches that all guns will eventually get. Plain walnut blanks are about the same price as mid-grade maple.

Siler locks are not a brand name, but a style of lock. Several people make them, find out who assembled the lock. The only "improved" Siler I'm familar with is Chambers who puts a bearing on the tumbler.  For a more PC lock, look at Chambers Late Ketland. It's a very fast lock sold by Jim Chambers, assembled by LC Rice.

Upgrade to a Chambers liner, can't cost more than 2 or 3 dollars.

Bill

[pathfinder]

Bud Siler is the gentleman who made the Siler locks. Jim bought his business. Lots of folks assemble Bud's kits.
Deffinitelly go with the swamped barrel even if you have to sacrifice something else. Better barrel and easier to clean with the round bottom rifling.

[Wyoming Mike]

I have a Tennessee that has almost the same specs that you are looking at.  The only difference is that I have an L&R Manton lock on it.  It is a little front heavy but I mostly use it for competition so that is not such a bad thing.

I would recommend that you get the swamped barrel for the same reasons everyone else has mentioned.  Another reason is that you want to reenact the Revolutionary war era.  The Siler on the rifle will fit right in.  The swamped barrel will be more authentic for the time period.  The straight barrels did not come into common use until more mass production gun making about twenty years later.

As far as the touch hole liner goes I have always had good luck with just the straight stainless or Ampco liners.  I have heard that the White Lightnings are excellent though.  You will have to make the call on that one.

[Billd]

Just a follow-up on swamped barrels.......Just because it's swamped doesn't mean it has round bottom rifling.  Rice charges extra for this feature, I'm not sure about other manufactures. I feel it's easier to clean and load.  There was a long discussion about round bottom rifling on another board.  Most felt it didn't affect accuracy one way or the other. I'm not a good enough shot to make a claim. Square and round bottom both shoot better than I can hold.

Bill

[riverrat]

My thoughts:  Late Ketland, Swamped round bottom rifleing, Steel Bannana patch box or just a grease hole drilled into the right side of the stock, and have the tang extended up to the comb of the stock.  
I will be getting my new custom Gross style southern gun very soon in .40 cal with steel hardware and a aged patina to the steel.  My tang will extend all the way to the steel butt plate.

[Captchee]

whelp i to would go for the swamped barrel , though i will admit that its not needed . with alittle planning the rifle  can be balanced proper , even with a  strait barrel .
 i have  built alot of rifles with strait barrels " all but this last one wich had its own requirements that make it nose heavy ." past that  all  , balanced right in front of the lock , just as they should , without leading the butt .
 i can provide photos as to this if folks like . ill have to contact the customers but i can do that .
 but yes a swamped barrel is easier to ballance correctly . if you can aford it , get it . i you cant and your not real worried about PC  then dont worry on it all that much


 now as to being PC , then you want a swamped barrel

as to the lock .
as steve stated , the siler has more of a Germanic influence . while this can be acceptable  depending on the rifle .
 Also on the southern rifles , depending on who you talk to , myself , I would go with the katland

Also Siler  was made by bud siler , as said .  When bud stopped making locks , he sold out  to jim chambers .
 Many companies sell siler locks , but the name comes from bud siler  and his reputation for making that specific lock

[biliff]

I'll add my vote for the swamped barrel for the same reasons as everybody else, balance and PC for the period your interested in.

The only other comment I can add is on the sights. I'd go with the flat top vice the buckhorn. I have both on and find the flat top easier to use. As for front sight, plain browned steel. I think if you went silver blade you'ld just end up blacking it out anyway.

[LRB]

If you want to do 18th c. anything, and keep the price down, I would suggest a plain version of a PA rifle with brass furniture. The southern mt. type was yet in the relative distant future. Swamped barrel, or full tapered is a must for 18th c. HC. Straight barrels were 1830's on. Buck horn sights are for plains rifles, and have never impressed me. A flat top, or flat top with short ears is a good choice, coupled with a silver blade. A silver blade with an under cut rear profile, rounding over at the top, gives you a bead effect in all but direct sunlight, or bright background. Especially helpful in the woods. You can blacken it if target shooting in bright conditions. Nothing beats the silver blade in eastern woods. The Chambers vent liner is hard to equal, let alone beat. That will aid greatly in fast, and dependable ignition. If you are into the rev war period, you maybe should rethink your entire plan. You would be much better off buying a Jim Chambers kit, and paying someone like Capchee to assemble it. Then you would have the best of everything, and be correct for your chosen persona. Iron mounted rifles in 18th c. America were as rare as fresh water pearls. Every now and then one pops up, but they are few, and far between.

[Billd]

I'm a yankee but I love them iron mounted southern guns. I have built both mountain and PA style. If your really hard core about being PC and HC go with a lancaster style.  If not, build want YOU like. You have to pay for and carry it.
Bill

[LRB]

The southern mt. rifle has appeal to many, but is much too late in time to be used for rev war period reenactment, or persona, which is what time slot the man has chosen. Just being a flintlock is not enough.

[Old Salt]

I've decided on the Siler lock. While researching the Siler lock I came across improved versions of them with taller hammers that increase the striking surface of the flints, supposedly creating more sparks, resulting in a faster and more reliable ignition. Is this an upgrade thats worth anything?

If you are asking about a "Chambers Delux Siler" my opinion is it will not function any better than the regular Siler.  

Salt

[Mike R]

The southern mt. rifle has appeal to many, but is much too late in time to be used for rev war period reenactment, or persona, which is what time slot the man has chosen. Just being a flintlock is not enough.

I agree 100%.  The original specs as listed [with options]--preference for "southern Mt style", steel mounted, straight barrel, Siler lock [out of place on such a gun], flat or pronghorn sights [latter definitely out of place], White lightening vent liner...for Rev War reenacting?  Such a rifle [with proper S. Mt lock style] would be more appropriate for the 1820s and later--perhaps War 1812 if you really stretch it.  The classic southern rifle --which I dearly love--is simply a post 18th cent critter.   Siler locks by the way, despite what someone wrote, are not a style made by several folks, but a man's name [Bud Siler] now owned by Chambers, and refers to a lock copied from an 1780s Lancaster made lock.  Alot of makers put Silers on southern/Tenn rifles but they do not belong on them. I have seen maybe two southern rifles with old germanic style locks--but 100s with round backed english or similar locks.  They do make fine hunting rifles and target rifles, but not OK for Rev War or any other 18th cent reenacting/trekking/living history.  There are numerous other style that are Ok, almost all rifles being brass mounted [Siler lock OK on many styles especially PA styles, also the Chambers Colonial VA lock], swamped barreled, either PA or early southern (VA) styled, flat topped rear sight with notch--and vent liners were rare on early pieces, though most makers use them now.

[Captchee]

Mike , you are right about the siler  lock .
 but what i was getting at by saying its made by alot of folks , is that  alot of companies make the siler , or make a lock the cal a siler .
 while jim  bought out bud , and sells his as a the jim chambers siler , if you look Track  of the wolf also sells a siler  that they discribe as tracks siler locks

 if you call  L&R to make an order and say you want a siler , they send you thier early classic . at least they dont call it a siler .

 also there are a couple imports that have now started making budget locks  that i have seen listed as silers .

 as you stated though , siler is a  mans name   and has become associated with a given lock .
 unfortionatly IMO its like  the hawkens rifle . anything thats half stock  is named a hawkens  or people call a hawkens .
 even though it is not .

 in all fairness though , Bud made some very good locks

[LRB]

Just to clarify, only Jim Chambers makes the Siler lock. He bought the name also. Those companies claiming to make Siler locks are simply assembling them from Jims kits, and very few are as good as those assembled by Chambers workers.