Flintlock fustrations, To many flashes in the pan, Questions

[Captchee]

Well, according to that site, banking the powder in the pan away from the flash hole is more or less an old wives tale, as the fastest times were with the powder next to the flash hole.

I think I am going to try some FFF and see how that works, in both the main charge and the pan.

 ya well  i can tell you this much , if you want a  FFFFFFFFTTTTttboom  put he powder over an the flash hole
 there is always someone trying to exsplain things  and then proclaiming one way isnt any better then another .
 Especially when it comes to  Bill knight . Who couldn’t figure out how to make even a cap lock  reliable enough in bad weather and thus had to result to  building the modern inlines  as a way  to achieve what his knowledge would not .
 keep the powder away from the flashhole . its faster and more consistent .
 but   one can do what they like .  We can learn the easy way or the hard way .
 your problem isnt with speed of ignition its with ignition . the fire is not getting to the main charge

thats the fun thing about flintlocks . what works good in theory and  may  be shown in the shop , often works like dodo when you in the field .
 Take the tests on the link .
 Notice all these test were done in a controlled way .  that’s very good . However not comparable  unless you shoot the very same way .
 Myself I have never seen a  shooter hold a rifle perfectly  horizontal . What ends up happening is the pan gets moved all around . Tilted from one side to the other while in the carry
 The masters like manton , Nock , Pauly and Perdy all knew this  . As such they dictated that the powder should NOT be up on the flash hole . They also dictated  the location of the flash hole location for the best ignition performance./ not because they thought it was better but because they new it was better .
 That information isn based on 10 . 20 or 30 years  but from  a 100 some years of  evolutionary knowledge .
But as I said , there is a learning curve  to the flintlock . So try  different thing and then settle for what works good for you

[Lastmohecken]

Well, I guess I will just keep trying for consistant booms instead of hisses. I went back out squirrel hunting late this afternoon. I loaded back up with 2F for the main charge. I used 3F in the pan. I used a full pan, which does leave the hole clear. I pricked the flash hole, and worked in a few grains of primming powder. And wiped the flint off.

I carried it for a couple of hours, but never go a good shot, so I fired it at a tin can, when I got back home. It fired first try.

[bluelake]

Very interesting thread.  I think I can see why I had some of the problems I did this past summer with both my flinter pistols and also my matchlock.  Next summer, I'll try some of the recommendations made here.

I had heard you don't want a large amount of primer in the pan (maybe about 1/3), but I hadn't heard to keep it away from the vent; it makes sense, though.  Like Capt. mentioned he did--tapping to put a little primer in the touch hole--the old Korean matchlock loading drill said to do the exact same thing; however, it didn't mention re-tapping to put the rest of the primer to the other side--I'll have to try that next time.

Capt., were cherries put in 18th century barrels?

[Lastmohecken]

Well, I have certainly had a good time, squirrel hunting with the Flintlock Fowler, this weekend. And I have been impressed with how effective a load of shot out of a long 20ga barrel driven by black powder, and no wad can be. I did not have time to really pattern it, but 80grs of 2f and equal volume of #6 shot seems to be very effective.

It seems like making a flintlock fire every time is part art and part common sense. They do demand attention to detail. And it seems that the smallest detail, can trip you up. One needs to be a fllintnapper, a mechanic, and maybe a little paranoid, when it comes to letting anything fowl you up, like a little soot on the flint, even if it's sharp, etc.

Maybe that's why the old Brown Bess has such a big lock on it.

[rollingb]

Sir Michael, I think you have some really good points.

I just got through shooting it a few more times.
On this occasion I decided to keep using 2F for the main charge, but primed with 3F and each time, I pricked the touch hole, and even tried to shove a few graniuals of 3F prime into the flash hole. I didn't have any flashes in the pan. I did have one failure to fire, when the priming powder didnot fire. The flint I have in there right now, is holding up good, and seems sharp. But maybe the flint had gotten dirty, with soote, so I wiped the flint with my thumb, and even though the frizzen looked clean I wiped it too.

Then I fired 3 more shots without any problems. Maybe, I am learning.

I hope to go squirrel hunting again this afternoon, late. I hope I get a couple of chances to bag another squirrel or two.

I gave up using FFG in my .62 smoothie years ago, and I seem to get just as fast, BUT, more consistant ignition with FFFG for the main charge.
In fact, I also only use FFFG to prime with now, because "I" just never could notice FFFFG working any better in the large locks of my trade guns.

To my way of thinking, the finer FFFG, as the main charge,... "might" just be a bit easier to ignite than using the coarser FFG (but I have no way to prove this).
The only comparison I can make is,.... other flintlock shooter's seem to think using FFFFG in the pan ignites easier and more consistantly than FFFG,... so who knows, maybe the finer powder (as a main charge) ignites a bit easier (and more consistantly?) then the coarser FFG powder.

One thing's for certain,... each riflegun is an "individual" unto it's self, and you've received some good advice from other flintlock shooters here.

[nessy357]

If you decide to enlarge the vent , use a number drill rather than a fractional drill bit. Look at the website below, you can see there are 5 sizes of number drills between 1/16" and 5/64" , I use a #51 for my flinchers.


http://www.csgnetwork.com/drillsizeconvert.html




Cheers Bob.

[Lastmohecken]

Yea, the size of the vent hole has got to be part of the problem. I have a wire vent pick, I purchased from Track of the Wolf, and it is only .051 in diameter and I can just get it into the flash hole, I mean it's tight. So that Flash hole is very likely to be 10 thousands under a 1/16".

A #51 bit at .0670 just might be about right. I doubt I will drill this one, but when I get my own flintlock, that will probably be the first thing I do.

[Lastmohecken]

Sir Michael, I think you have some really good points.

I just got through shooting it a few more times.
On this occasion I decided to keep using 2F for the main charge, but primed with 3F and each time, I pricked the touch hole, and even tried to shove a few graniuals of 3F prime into the flash hole. I didn't have any flashes in the pan. I did have one failure to fire, when the priming powder didnot fire. The flint I have in there right now, is holding up good, and seems sharp. But maybe the flint had gotten dirty, with soote, so I wiped the flint with my thumb, and even though the frizzen looked clean I wiped it too.

Then I fired 3 more shots without any problems. Maybe, I am learning.

I hope to go squirrel hunting again this afternoon, late. I hope I get a couple of chances to bag another squirrel or two.

I gave up using FFG in my .62 smoothie years ago, and I seem to get just as fast, BUT, more consistant ignition with FFFG for the main charge.
In fact, I also only use FFFG to prime with now, because "I" just never could notice FFFFG working any better in the large locks of my trade guns.

To my way of thinking, the finer FFFG, as the main charge,... "might" just be a bit easier to ignite than using the coarser FFG (but I have no way to prove this).
The only comparison I can make is,.... other flintlock shooter's seem to think using FFFFG in the pan ignites easier and more consistantly than FFFG,... so who knows, maybe the finer powder (as a main charge) ignites a bit easier (and more consistantly?) then the coarser FFG powder.

One thing's for certain,... each riflegun is an "individual" unto it's self, and you've received some good advice from other flintlock shooters here.

I started out using 2F because I had read how it's better in damp weather, then 3F, and didn't want to get hooked on 4F because I read that it would turn to mush very easily. And I wanted to use just one horn. Plus I have read that pressures are lower with 2F then 3F, but I may just switch over to 3F completely, might be more reliable, and I would be back to one horn. However, I might buy some 4F for priming just to see how that works as it might be more forgiving if one"s flint doesn't throw as many sparks, as might be needed, for the courser powder.

[Captchee]

Capt., were cherries put in 18th century barrels

yep .  From what I understand  it actually dates to the 17th century  and was  first  use  on wheel locks and snap hence

 let make something else clearer here . i dont re tasp so as to bank the powder . I rool the lock over so as to insure the powder is NOT over the flash hole . its practicaly impossable to keep the powder banked to the outside of the pan .
 try it some time . without thinking  prime and walk . then check you prime . what you will find is that  your powder has leveled itself out ." unless you roll the rifle before you open the pan ."
 IMO this will not effect your consistancy IF the rifle was built proper .
 but let that powder get over the flash hole  and thus exsperiance a fuse burn  LMAO . after that you will do  just about anything to keep it from happaning ever again

[Captchee]

2 F has a  slower burn rate the 3F . Thus it has  slightly shallower  spike  and thus lower breech pressure .
 3 F burns faster  because of the smaller grain  size . It has a steeper pressure spike the 2F  and thus more breech pressure .
 What you can do is  cut back 10 to 15 grains and use 3F  so as to get into the relative  pressure of a 2F  charge

A wet charge is a wet charge  doesn’t mater 2 or 4 F .  if your 4F is showing signs of drawing moisture . The 2F is also drawing moisture. 4 F will show it more because its finer  and more surface area  for the  moisture to attack  .
 So  learn to protect the pan  and keep as much of that moisture out . If you can keep a 4f charge dray . You will be able to keep a 2F charge dry
 If not , then it doesn’t mater whats in the pan , its all going to be wet to some extent

[mark davidson]

I'm new but I have found some things that work. First, in my guns, more powder in the pan ignites the charge better than less. Second, banking does not seem to matter and according to the above site and tests may actually be slower than just a good level pan of priming powder. I prime with 4F and the tiniest spark makes it go WOOSH! Now the simple "biggie" is in my experience, this: the FLINT!  Every time I have any of my three flinters start that  misfire crap, it is the flint. I may not get many shots per flint but a fresh sharp one totally eliminates any misfires for me. Now if you are literally getting a big flash in the pan, it might not be the flint, but new sharp flints make my guns go bang. I did drill out a touch hole to 5/64ths a few weeks back but on a rifled barrel my accuracy went to crap. Replacing the liner with one not drilled out restored accuracy immediately.  Try more powder in the pan and go to 4F and use a new flint and see what happens.

[pathfinder]

I'm not a scientist or chemist(ask ANY of my college professors!)but from what I've been told over the years by those who are, 4F is the only size that isn't graphite coated for moister resistance, that's why I prime with 3F when hunting,and it transfers over to match shooting also. Not sure it makes a difference,but if standing on my head while singing the Star Spangled Banner makes me a better shot, cover yer ear's boy's, I'ma singin"!

[BEAVERMAN]

I'm new but I have found some things that work. First, in my guns, more powder in the pan ignites the charge better than less. Second, banking does not seem to matter and according to the above site and tests may actually be slower than just a good level pan of priming powder. I prime with 4F and the tiniest spark makes it go WOOSH! Now the simple "biggie" is in my experience, this: the FLINT!  Every time I have any of my three flinters start that  misfire crap, it is the flint. I may not get many shots per flint but a fresh sharp one totally eliminates any misfires for me. Now if you are literally getting a big flash in the pan, it might not be the flint, but new sharp flints make my guns go bang. I did drill out a touch hole to 5/64ths a few weeks back but on a rifled barrel my accuracy went to crap. Replacing the liner with one not drilled out restored accuracy immediately.  Try more powder in the pan and go to 4F and use a new flint and see what happens.

Mark, have you ever tried any of Rich Pierce Missouri long trek flints?

[Captchee]

when you drill out a liner , you get a drop in bore pressure  do to the larger hole .

[mark davidson]

Beaverman,  No I have not tried any of the Rich Pierce flints. Like I said, I have only been at this flint thing about two seasons. I have been using Tom Fuller flints from TOW. If there is something better that will last longer then I am all for it. Honestly, I am not getting more than a dozen or two good reliable shots from my flints in any of my three flinters.