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Author Topic: Does your lube effect accuracy?  (Read 4232 times)

Offline Captchee

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« Reply #30 on: December 14, 2009, 06:50:46 PM »
i would disagree mich
 never had an issue
 remind me of this again though and ill go out  and shoot a target in -10 temps  and post it
we should still have plent of those day yet to come

Offline Riley/MN

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« Reply #31 on: December 14, 2009, 07:41:07 PM »
Quote from: "Mitch"
.....and what the heck do "teflon" and "teflon patches" have to do with TRADITIONAL muzzlelaoding anyway?

I were thinkin that too...
~Riley
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Offline Mitch

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« Reply #32 on: December 14, 2009, 07:48:47 PM »
Charles-we can agree to disagree(until you get a ball frozen halfway down the barrel!)....I had it happen to me in Montana back in 2000-both my fowler and my friends' riflegun had frozen balls!! Maybe you got greasy spit??<GRIN>.....
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Offline Riley/MN

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« Reply #33 on: December 14, 2009, 07:54:54 PM »
Quote from: "Mitch"
Maybe you got greasy spit??<GRIN>.....

Maybe it's got anti-freeze in it?
~Riley
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Offline Captchee

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« Reply #34 on: December 14, 2009, 08:03:27 PM »
Quote from: "Riley/MN"
Quote from: "Mitch"
Maybe you got greasy spit??<GRIN>.....

Maybe it's got anti-freeze in it?

 you know maybe that’s it  because i have actually , and don’t repeat this but i have actual  shot in weather so cold  someone toung froze to the barrel and not had an issthuuuuuee other then my toung ,,,,, er a , it was cold LOL
 now while that was a little  embarrassing but . it was pretty darn nice to watch and badger the  other folks faces  with me owning the only bottle in camp that night after winning the bet  lol .
 Those that laughed  groveled very quickly lol

Offline IronDawg

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« Reply #35 on: December 14, 2009, 11:52:21 PM »
Quote from: "Mitch"
spit doesn't work when it's below freezing...especially when it's say -10(personal experience!!).....and what the heck do "teflon" and "teflon patches" have to do with TRADITIONAL muzzlelaoding anyway?

 Ya know. there are some real gems on this site. Some guys that have truly went above and beyond to help me out..... and then...... this  makes the 6th time in less than a month that I've recieved a response like this because apparently my ignorance and lack of knowledge on what is and is not accept is alot more entertaining to "scoff at" instead of just giving a "plolite correction"

  OK so let me see... do I go off on a tangent here and a big spill?? Do I respond in the same smart allecky manner?? Do I blow it off?? Do I give the benefit of a doubt? Do I try and explain myself?? directions directions which do I choose?? Oh wait!! If it's ok to give lil smart remarks as responses....

Hello Mitch,

I'm Lance. Nice to meet you. And I don't know what the heck teflon coated pillow ticking has to do with traditional muzzleloading !  I'm new to this, hence all the questions and wondering what to use. If I knew it I wouldn't ask, if I knew it was not used or considered OK, I would not use it. And yes I know Teflon was not around in 1735. I also know half the techniques used, machines used and even some of the materials used in half the poeple on this sites muzzleloaders wasn't around either! It's blue and white stripey pillow ticking with green stuff on the back of it. Thats as far as my knowedge of it goes.

A good friend that builds fine flintlocks and helped get me in to this gave me some to try. I didn't know it was one of the taboo subjects. Funny thing is when I ask him questions that seem to go against the grain, I always get a polite response or answer like "Nah ya don't want to use that... it don't fit in."

 See thats the wierd thing about these rifles. We all love them and we all want to learn more about how it used to be done with them. Unfortunately we aren't all born with this knowledge. And even then there are those of us that just got our first, or just started this last summer. We're all NOT 20 plus year veterans at this.

And wouldn't ya know it!! It seems my "what IS and what IS NOT considered traditional for muzzleloaders handbook must have got lost in the mail! Darn the luck!

But hey now I know!! I'll go right out and set fire to the teflon coated pillow ticking, oh wait that won't work, teflon doesn't burn...., I'll just have to bury it.

P.S. All of this could have been avoided with a simple "Dude that teflon stuff aint right for traditional muzzleloaders" see?? See a simple response with no attitude or apearance of looking down your nose at someone.
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Offline Captchee

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« Reply #36 on: December 15, 2009, 08:44:24 AM »
Easy  , now .
 I know  what mitch said  may easly come across wrong .
 Just as easy lance as your question could come across in many ways .

. Lets step back  here and take a look
 You ask about Teflon .  Where you meaning Teflon  like Teflon tape , Teflon automotive spray or  whats often called Teflon / no stick cooking spray

 Now what does the above have to do with traditional muzzle loading ??
 Well thinking on it and when you get right down to it , just about as much as  bore butter , wonder lube , uncle mikes supper giraffe.
 luggie’s .
 I went to the kitchen and pulled out  a can of no stick . Guess what  the  ingredients are
 Soybean oils .
 Seems like that would make a very good  patch lube .
 How many folks here  recommend  RIGG  or any of the modern gun oils ?
 Can you say petroleum distillates

So while I can fully understand mitch’s posts , I also can understand IronDawg
 And his post
 So in all fairness  Mitch , Irondawgs post could be taken many ways , just as IMO he has taken yours  on its face value .

 .  Now  I know sometimes its frustrating . I  have a very hard time communicating  my thoughts . My writing is not good , nor is my spelling .
 But im here because I like to help folks . I  enjoys  seeing people learn , think for themselves .
 It makes my day  to read where someone here has ask a question or had a problem  and someone  gives advice  that’s followed by a post  say , THANKS , THAT WORKED GREAT .
 isn’t that why we are all here ??? Are we all here  to learn ?
Mitch says he has had patches freeze to the bore while loading . Myself I never have . But  I will now watch and see . Thus applying Mitch ‘s experiences  to my own evaluations

Myself I never thought of  using None stick for a patch lube .
 I just may have to try it some time , might just  work well in a rifle  that’s having issues of some kind  one never knows , I don’t ,  as I said , never tried it . But now that Irondawg has brought it up  ,  ill do the same thing as ill do with mitch’s post , add it to my information base .

I have  tried the teflon  sprays. many years back . i did not like what they left in the bore  nore how  a patched lubes with it loaded in the bore .
  was that "traditional"  nope . but as i said  nether is many of the concoctions many of us post . But we post  them because they work for us .

Seriously  could you imagine .
   A group of fellas sitting around the fire . Maybe its 1740 or  1840 .

 One turns to the other ands say . : hay Gopher tail , got any marvel mystery oil   on ya .  I  lost my bottle of patch lube in that river the other day . I still have some Windex and 409 but  out of bore butter and wonder lube , got any extra ?
 While your looking ,  I lost my Bore solvent to , got any old thunder ?  The pink will do but I like the blue colored one better .

 GopherTail replies ; nope Raging Cricket , but I do have some hydrogen peroxide  and a bottle of stump’s moose snot  here .
it works for me


 Folks , we never stop learning , NEVER .
Irondawg . , I will say this .  With only a couple exceptions, I try and not take peoples words  personal or   frank .. . It works very well for this medium if  we just try  to laughand take everyone as trying to help in their own way .  soem folks will gently lead  you . others willlet you learn from your own mistakes . yet others will be abrupt .  that just the way of people .


 Now some of the folks here know me more on a personal base then  most . They will tell you  that it takes very little for  my blood to boil and  thus jump right in the middle  of someone. it’s a very , VERY hard thing for me to control , as my blood goes from 0-160 in less the 2 seconds . Some of those folks  can attest to that  lol .

So I want to say , I think you did a very good job with the last post concerning this .
 When you do run across something that strikes you  wrong ,  just drive on Airborn .  Because for every one of those posts that you may feel is off color in some way , there will be  many . Many more that are not.

never , EVER  let someon or something  stop you from  learning or asking questions

Offline IronDawg

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« Reply #37 on: December 15, 2009, 10:11:18 AM »
Cap,

The very first person that made a smart remark as a response to one of my questions was also the third and his member number is LOW. At this point I PMed the fella in person and asked if I did something wrong to offend him because it seemed every comment he made towards me was snide and I was starting to take a shade of offense to it. I told him if there was an issue I would just as soon resolve it now before it escalated any further.  Being called  a dummy I can handle, being treated like an idiot I can not.

His response was (and I quote) "Boy if your going to swim with the sharks you better grow some teeth" Here's another news flash, I've been involved on the ground level of website message boards that generate in excess of 5 million hits a day. If there's one thing I have?? It's teeth and plenty of bite.

However I choose not to use them most of the time because of not only the persona it gives off, but because you simply catch more flies with sugar than salt.

I know it's hard to see a smile or read emotions in to a typed statement. But the thing I did wrong here was I pretty much dished out venting for SIX smart or snide remarks on Mitch. That was wrong. (shoulda only gave Mitch a "one snide remark" vent LOL!) I took out frustration from all of them on the last one.

From what I've read of his post, Mitch seems to not only be an accomplished hunter but also an excellent shot. I would take his advice as very very sound. But I'll take rudeness from no one regardless of their experience, stature or status.

I'm a real simple fella to figure out.You give?? I try and give more. You nice? I nicer! You rude?? I even more rude. You be a butthole?? This is the land I come as "high ruler" from.

Personally ?? I prefer I polite and respectful, you polite and respectful.

But never not once have I played door matt or punching bag.

As for the "insert forbidden coating here" I honestly have no clue Cap. it's a strip of cut white pillow ticking with blue stripes (just like from wally world) with a slick dry coating on the back thats green. sort of makes the ticking almost feel like it's been starched and ironed. I figured it was ticking so it was OK. I payed the green coating on the backs origin no more attention than I would pay "rem oil" or  "bore butter"
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Offline Captchee

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« Reply #38 on: December 15, 2009, 11:12:58 AM »
, im full awear of your exsperiance . its not wasted on me .
what i posted wasnt just for you , or mitch but for everyone here

 i think this is a good topic  and many , Many folks are learning from it .

I do hear you lance .
 im not  meaning to make light of  this at all .
 you have some valide points .

 the same rules that apply to the forum apply to the PM system folks .

 so lets move back on topic  shall we .
 would you have a photo of the ticking your speaking of ?
 have you tried it .


i cant say i have used that or seen it ??
heck , give it a try , you just may have the next Stump's moose snot , you never know .
 were you satisifed  or did you find it lacking . what was the results .

 now i have used ticking with sizing . this has kind of a sheen to it .
 it also tastes rather bad  untell you get used to it .

 myself  i find that in my rifle i get better accracy  from un washed ticking over washed ticking . so i no longer wash  the pillow ticking  before using it .

 now if this has something to do with  the patch not freezing as Mitch hads discribed ?
 i dont know . i find it hard to fathum that  eather of us have hunter in  any colder weather then the other ???
as i said , i cant say .

Offline Gambia

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« Reply #39 on: December 15, 2009, 11:47:05 AM »
Speaking of going from 0 to 160 in a nanosecond I relate to that very well.One thing I have learned over the the years is to ignore fanatics on any subject mostly to keep my blood pressure on the chart.Maintaining your sense of humor when discussing any aspect of traditional muzzleloading is mandatory to keeping your cool.As a practical matter there is very little equipment in use today that meets a strict definition of PC.I don't know about the rest of you but I like to shoot sidelocks and experiment with different stuff, PC is not a consideration. A lot of the posters on this board can get pretty testy at times so you need to go to the joke section and read some of that stuff once in a while. By the way this talk of cold intrigues me where I was raised 10 below was a heat wave try 30 to 50 below I agree spit would not work you would not want to uncover your face long enough to get some.Man I love the left coast.

Offline IronDawg

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« Reply #40 on: December 15, 2009, 11:50:20 AM »
I've not even tried it yet Cap. But I may the next time I go to the range. I have to take a few pics of a bow here either today or tomorrow so I'll take a pic of it and upload it as well.

That was about to be another question. The fella that sent me the CVA rifle as part of a trade sent a bunch of roundballs and some ticking. It was obvious the ticking had been washed. Again being a total newb this sort of made a light go off. I'm gathering washing and drying ticking makes it shrink and tightens the weave?? Or does it just make it more soft and supple for wrapping a roundball?? if the latter is the main reasoning then the teflon backed ticking would almost defeat the purpose then because like i said it feels like ya collor on ya dress blues after a good heavy starching.

He also sent me a bunch of roundballs for a 50 cal (none of my rifles are 50 so ammo was part of the deal) They got that white residue that leads gets all over em. I know it may sound like a stupid question but I just need to wipe that off them and go on and use em right?? I mean it wouldn't be good to leave that powdery whitish residue all over em and still expect em to fly as true as a shiny new one would it?

I think I'm going to give Melsdads recipes a few goes, and also going to try LARD :lol:  I do believe a spit patch should be the ticket for my squirrel gun though as I shoot more squirrel hunting and always empty the rifle at the end of the day. Last Jan. we had a few days that got down to around 4 degrees in the mts. add a windchill for one day and boy it was C-C-COLD! But normally we get some 19-22 degree mornings that warm above freezing by 9-10 oclock. We don't get those temps you boys up north get down here and when we get close it's only for a day or two. So I htink I'll be OK on the freezing issue. As someone born and raised in Catahoula Parish La.?? I dunno how yall handle that stuff. North Ga. mts. are like alaska to me. (my feet are webbed! ha!)

I do not want to use the bore butter for two reasons, one what you guys say about it, and two because Like other things I'm learning, something just doesn't feel right about pulling a plastic squeeze tube out of my possibles bag and squeezing out lube on a patch.

What this has made me realize is even if I cannot come up or find a decent "not too messy" lube?? when and if I rebuild this 50?? I definately need a patch box on it.
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Offline Mitch

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« Reply #41 on: December 15, 2009, 12:10:40 PM »
If I somehow offended you, I do apologize for you being offended. I'm the same way "online" as I am in person-ask me a question, I'll give an answer...and yep, I'm more than a bit of a "purist"(hence my "snide"comment on teflon)-I will willingly share my knowledge,learn from others and continue on "my" path.....you are welcome in my camp.
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Offline Captchee

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« Reply #42 on: December 15, 2009, 12:15:28 PM »
yes washing can do both , it softens and shrinks .
 but it also takes out the sizing .

 from your discription , if it wanst for the color  i would almost say its a sizing of some type your seeing . dont know though ,. wouldvery much like to see it.
as to the balls . whe white coating your seeing is called sweet salts . it corossion that grows on lead .  its not really to good for you .  its what gives you lead poisoning .
well other then being shot lol
as far as changing the way the ball flies . i seriously doubt you will see any real noticable diffrence . ..
 try a couple though .

 if you want to take  it off , just get a Old pan of water and wash them . then once clean  you can roll them around in alittle oil  and then wipe them off or  just shoot em .

 i have found though that once the sweetsalts start to grow , it comes back rather quick . so if you find  it an issue , do  put alittle oil on them .

myself  past my conicals , i dont have RB around long enough to get salts on them lol

Offline IronDawg

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« Reply #43 on: December 15, 2009, 01:07:42 PM »
Quote from: "Mitch"
If I somehow offended you, I do apologize for you being offended. I'm the same way "online" as I am in person-ask me a question, I'll give an answer...and yep, I'm more than a bit of a "purist"(hence my "snide"comment on teflon)-I will willingly share my knowledge,learn from others and continue on "my" path.....you are welcome in my camp.

No harm no foul. Like I said I shouldn't have taken everything out on you. I apologize as well. I have nothing against being a bit of a purist. Matter of factly I may want to be one. But first I have to actually learn what one is.

Cap.

 And there in lies where we differ :) . Soon I I figured out the right size roundball for my 54 cal?? within 2 weeks there was 500 of them here. Same with my other rifles and powders. I guess I'm one of those that "OK this works. lets make sure we don't run out" types (LOL!) I think he's just had these round balls  stowed away in a box for a long time. I'll rinsde em and oil em down and store them in something more airtight?? wait a minute..... I'm working on an oil tanned leather ball bag. maybe I should store oily balls in it.



And  it is no smoother or slicker than it looks. What it is though is springy. I mean if you unroll it?? It springs back and rolls back up. Real memory forming and sorta stiff.

If this pic aint givin ya whatcha need cap PM me yer snail mail addy and I'll send it to ya .
« Last Edit: December 15, 2009, 01:23:08 PM by IronDawg »
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Online Two Steps

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« Reply #44 on: December 15, 2009, 01:19:47 PM »
Dawg...in my experience   :shock:   teflon patches/teflon coated patches are used by competitive shooters more that other folks.  These guys do everything they can to wring out every little mm in their groups.  I've never used one because (1). They're pretty pricy$$, and (2).  I think I can miss just as good with my ticking patch and whatever lube I'm saying magic words over at the moment.

If you really want to find out about teflon coated patches, ya might want to post something to one of the long range shooting guys here.  I think they can give ya the pros and cons of them.
Al
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