Does your lube effect accuracy?

[IronDawg]

Or maybe I should say "bullet impact"??

I'm just about talked in to forgoing lube and just using spit patches. I mean hey I gotta endless supply there and its one less thing I have to fumble around in my bag lookin for.


BUT we all know a good lube eases in loading. But would it also have an effect on "unloading" as the charge went off?? or is the charge so significant a push it makes lube types insignificant?

has anyone experimented with different patch lubes on the range and saw any difference in accuracy or bullet impact??

See I got to thinkin.... if I load my rifle Saturday morning with a spit patch.. and I don't get a shot until sunday evening?? Do I not in fact pretty much have a dry patch wrapped around my roundball?? is this going to shoot the same as a freshly loaded patch ball combo?? is the spit patch going to impact differently than say bore butter??

Or is the details and measurements of impact too insignificant to matter??

[rollingb]

I don't see any difference in ball impact with a spit-patch vs a lubed-patch.

Having said that,... I "never" use a spit-patch when hunting. The spit can cause a rust ring to develope near the breech end of the barrel, and when dried out, offers NO LUBE to the barrel of the gun when fired.

I'm NOT a fan of bore butter either,... I make my own blend of lube using bear's oil and bee's wax.

My routine calls for a spit-patch when shooting targets,... and my blended lube for hunting.  

[jim m]

I agree with rollingb. I use spit for targets and a grease for hunting and I also don't like bore butter. I have a friend that shot on the NY state flintlock team for several years and he is a fanatic when it comes to experimenting with different lubes and powder charges, even weighs all of his balls. he never uses a grease lube for targets.

[Three Hawks]

If you're going to shoot almost immediately, a spit patch is fine.  In a hunting situation, a spit patch is worse than useless.  Over the last 50 years of shooting muzzleloaders, actually ONE muzzleloader, my ol' .50 T-C Hawken,   and now my .32 Crockett, I have evolved, or devolved, whichever you prefer, to plain ol' grocery store lard.   No arcane formulations, no waiting for a gibbous moon, no evisceration of domesticated fowl, no ululated incantations and funny hats, just a little heat to melt it,  then sopping it up in a strip or six of patch material.  Fifteen minutes of fooling around in the kitchen with no "icky smells", thus no risk of high speed impact wounds inflicted on the ol' noggin by SWMBO with her lethal lefse pin.

In those fifty years I have had  good success with Wondra Hand Lotion, Moose Milk, Olive Oil, Crisco, White Lithium Grease, Bear Grease, Goose Grease, 10W-30 Valvoline Motor Oil, 1000 Wonder Lube, A Dozen Or So Other Goopy Concoctions, all reputed and testified to as having sundry Majikal Properties including but not limited to curing the evil effects of: bad aim,  poor powder, dull flints, scabies, cancer of the tongue and throat, rust,  hives, scoliosis, dry skin, the grippe, boils, weeping lesions and pernicious infertility of cows, ewes, concubines, sows, wives and mares.  

I still like lard.  It's cheap, it's available everywhere and it  doesn't stink.   Crisco or any of the twelve hundred house brands of veggie shortening work as well.   I just like lard.

Your mileage, as always, may vary,

Three Hawks

[Riley/MN]

...no ululated incantations and funny hats...

Oh, man... :rt th


 

[graybeard]

incantations should be chanted, not ululated.  that's probably why you wouldn't like my lube of rendered porcupine fat mixed with essense of henbane gathered only under a quarter moon.  graybeard

[jim m]

hey three hawks, you using the unsalted lard or do you think it makes a difference. never thought about lard, but don't see any reason why it wouldn't work

[jim m]

oh yeah another thing about lard, just add a little sugar and some chocolate and you've got a homemade oreo cookie  

[Three Hawks]

hey three hawks, you using the unsalted lard or do you think it makes a difference. never thought about lard, but don't see any reason why it wouldn't work

Plain, unsalted lard.  I don't think salt would help your barrel out any.  I've also used Veggie shortening, it works just as well.

Mmmm Mmmm! Lard 'n onion sammiches.  Given my 'druthers I prefer plain onion with mayo.  Half an inch of Walla Walla Sweets, Vidalias or Maya Sweets on wheat bread with at least twice as much Mayo as you'd usually use.  Heaven.

Lonely ol'

Three Hawks

[melsdad]

A few years ago when I started shooting black powder, and switched to roundballs (before I knew any better) I bought some balls, and a tube of TC bore butter, and a yard of pillow ticking. I cut some patches an lubed them with the goop in the tube, and went to the range. I was very un pleased with the results I got. I could not get a group under 5" at 25 yards. I thought to myself, those guys that told me round balls are old fashioned, and un accurate were correct. I am glad I am the type of person that doesn't give up easily. I searched the web, and found a few hundred concotions for different patch lubes. I mixed up some Moose Milk, and followed the directions for soaking the patches, and back to the range. Now I had five shots in one large ragged hole at 25 yards. I was amazed at what kind of improvement I was seeing just by changing my patch lube.

So to answer your question, and to stop my rambling. Yes, to me a lube can make a difference in accuracy! And please stay away from the garbage in the tube called TC bore butter!! I noticed, that once I finally got all the crud left in my barrel by the BB scrubbed out, my accuracy improved even more!!

I also noticed that using a spit patch, or my Moose Milk lubed patches there is no difference in accuracy at all. I also use a lube called Moose Snot for hunting with balls loaded in a ball block. This is a thicker paste that will not freeze when it get darn cold in the late season.

If you want the recipes for the 2 lubes I use I can post them up for you.

[Captchee]

I agree with melsdad.
 What patch lube you use can make a big difference in accuracy . It just depends on the rifle . Some bores are more forgiving of lubes , others not . If you set down and actually work up a load  for your  rifle , you will see it ..

  I would have to say that a whole lot of folks out there don’t know how to work a load . They just  try something . Do a small adjustment for powder . Maybe a different patch thickness and call it good
 But if your looking for  every last nickel of performance, working a load isa rather long process  thats for some never ending .
 i know a fella i shoot often with .  he is in his late 60's and has been muzzleloading since dirt was a baby .
 the man is a fanatic on his load . right down to ball sizes , wieghts . weaves  thicknesses and lubes . he is always in the top 1 or 2  places  unless he just is having a real bad day . but you ask him how his rifle is shooting and he will tell you  with a strait face , while looking at a tie breaker card that he just put 3 shot in  the same hole at 25 yards off hand  ,,, ahhh my load is still off some .
 leaving you standing there wonder For crying out load , i call that a fantstic load !!!!
 

 work on your lubes . Try different ones  tell you find the one your barrel really likes.
 If it turns out that highly salted bacon grease  improves the performance , then use it .
 Everything natural has some level of salt in it , to include BP .
 Just make sure you clean up your bore after your done shooting  . Which you should be doing anyway .
 Its not a car finder that your going to  never clean under
IMO the worring about salts  is like worring about how corrosive BP is or can be .  take care of your gun after shooting and it will last
 let it set out in the drive way  like a car thats been driven  for years on salted roads with out ever having the undercarage cleaned . then you  deserve all the rust the good lord can give you .

 Now that being said . I use ONLY spit .
Let me say that agin for all to here . I ONLY USE SPIT FROM MY OWN MOUTH “ to lube my patches , be it  target shooting or hunting . I have done  this for near 19 years  in a hand forged  barrel ,
 There is no rust where the ball seats . There is no rust at the muzzle .
 In fact there is no rust inside  the bore of that rifle at all

 I have hunted all day  and never had an issue with  accuracy from  a patch that’s dried out
 I have hunted in temps well below zero . Temps where the  pillow ticking patch  material has frozen  to my rifle bag strap . And still  never seen an issue with accuracy . Did the patch freeze in the bore  ?? Maybe . I never pull them to see . Did it dry out ?? Maybe  again I do not pull them and see .
 But I have shot enough in very cold temps , with  loads that have been in the bore  for  minutes to all day  , to say  , none of the above happens or  if it does ,,,,,,,,,,, maters

 Does the powder charge foul Again a NOPE sorry . Maybe it could if you let some  dairy cow slobber on your patch tell its dripping an oozing , then I could maybe see it .

Again , myself I  do not and have not for  near 19 years of owning that rifle , used anything but spit as a patch lube . Not only for target shooting but also for hunting

 It  might not work for you  but it sure works Skippy for me ,

  If you do chose to use a lube , I would agree with the others here . Stay as far away from the TC lube as you can
 I have heard some folks say its just Crisco with additives.
I don’t believe it   and if im wrong and it is then TC would be better to leave the additives out and then buy out Crisco  and put the TC log on  all the cans
 I know they have this vidio where they shot supposedly 1000 times with wonder lube .
 Well that’s all and good . But I have found  from helping others  who use it , the fastes way to foul a barrel and then have to run a patch every 5-15 shots is to put that stuff down your bore .
 I don’t care if it’s the natural , spearmint , peppermint  or wintergreen flavors . Leave it for the conical shooters

last weekend i shot 27 shots on a trail  using spit patches in  temps  that had to be very near 0 with the wind chill .
 it was so cold that the  patches  would near instantly freeze befor i could cut  them.. some times i had to wieght up to 15 minutes to shoot the target. i never had to  run a  cleaning patch  that whole day . the rifle loaded as easy on the last shot as on the first .

 those that shoot with me can attest that i  when ever i can , shoot the tie breaker last . " ie get warmed up "

 in this case it was actualy near 30 minutes from the time i loaded tell i actualy shot this target . i was freezing and was shaking so bad i had to step down from the line . have a cup of coffee and smake my pipe so as to warm back up
 i  ssure you all if the patch was going to freeze , it would have done it .
 if it were to effect accuracy , it would have been seen with this shot .
 granted  this could be better but i was cold so give me a break

[IronDawg]

OK I think a spit patch is my meal ticket for squirrel hunting. I just have to empty the rifle at the end of the hunt (which I always do because it's fun)

MELSDAD,

YES I would like those moose milk and snot recipes.

lard and onion sammiches?? NO!! I would NOT like those recipes!!

[melsdad]

Here ya' go.

Stumpy's Moose Juice

A general purpose blackpowder solvent and liquid patch lube. Shake well before using

Castor Oil 3 oz.
Murphy's Oil Soap 1 oz.
Witch Hazel 4 oz.
Isopropyl Alcohol (91%) 8 oz.
Water (non-chlorinated if available) 16 oz.

I dip my patching in this twice and let it dry laid flat on wax paper in between. Makes a semi-dry patch material that's easy to carry & use. If you don't mind carrying a little bottle it's a GREAT liquid lube as is.


Stumpy's Moose Snot

A premium multi-shot between wiping (10+) patch lube stable over a wide temperature range.
SPECIFICALLY designed for use of patched round balls in a loading block

Beeswax 2 oz.
Castor Oil 8 oz.
Murphy's Oil Soap 1 oz.


Heat beeswax in a soup can set a pot of water. ( A double-boiler. I keep my beeswax in a one pound coffee can and measure out what I need by melting it and pouring it into measuring cups). Add just enough water so the inner can does not begin to float (should be just short of the lube level in the can). Heat the water to a low boil. In a separate can, add the castor oil and Murphy's oil soap (cold). Once the beeswax is melted, swap the castor oil can in the pot of water for the beeswax. Add the beeswax to the oils. It will clump up. Stir with an ice tea spoon as the mixture heats up. When it fully melts there will be a scum that floats to the top and just won't mix in. Be patient. DO NOT COOK THE MIXTURE. Once the solids are dissolved there is no need to heat further. Skim the scum off. Remove the mix from the heat and wipe the water off the outside (so it won't drip into the container when you pour it out). FINAL TOP SECRET STEP: Add a teaspoon of Murphy's Oil Soap and stir vigorously. This last step makes the lube frothy and smooth - really adds to the appearance; though it doesn't seem to matter to the function of the lube. Clamp the can in the jaws of a vice-grip pliers and pour into the waiting tins. Allow to cool a half hour.

Note: it if is a hinged tin - line the edge that has the hinges with a strip of aluminum foil so it doesn't ooze out before it cools.

[mark davidson]

Three Hawks, Now that was funny!! I like it simple!! Captchee, now that post of yours was good too, even more simple....just spit!! :-) I am still new so I am using pre-lubed patches from TOW made by ox-yoke or somebody like that. They are all I have used except pillow ticking with spit and cut at the muzzle. I just find the pre lubed patches more convenient and I am getting near MOA accuracy at 100 yards from the bench. Right now I cannot imagine why I should be using anything else or any other kind of lube. Does anybody know what the ox-yoke patches from TOW are lubed with?? They are yellow....could it be the dreaded bore butter?? I am curious!

[Mitch]

I'm in agreement with Ol'ThreeHawks-lard.....I've even used the dreaded "bacon grease" in a pinch(Or if I'm just lazy!) and have had no adverse effects,rust,speech impedements or blindness  occur whilst using said "bacon grease"....use what you have, it'll work...and I like the cheap to free aspect of home rendered fats...