kids gun

[62flint]

My eight year old girl wants a gun like Dads. So Who makes a decent "kit" gun in childs size? Chambers little fellar rifle seems a bit to big.  
I am looking for something about 11 to 12 inch pull.
Need it fo be fairly well cut out to save on building time. She wants to build it with me so I pretty well need it in the white or close to. I am afraid she may get bored with a lot of rough stock shapeing.
SO 11-12 inch pul. around 30 inch barrel. Whats out there?

[biliff]

Sitting Fox has some kids/ladies gun kits listed. You'ld have to call Ray to see how much work is involved or if he can do one in the white for you.

[Old Salt]

Cabin Creek Muzzle loaders is the only other place that I'm aware of that sells a small rifle.  

Sitting Fox has several small kits for sale.  I built one of Ray's kits for my son with pretty good results.

With any kit you can always make the LOP shorter.  It just adds work when fitting the butt plate.  If I remember right, Ohio Joe cut down the barrel and the stock for his son's rifle.

Salt

[Kermit]

Remember that a "small" rifle needs to be more than just shortened in LOP. Everything needs to be sized right. They can wind up looking heavy for their length. Steve's photos show that. You'd not guess it's a 10" LOP from the photos alone; you have to be told!

[longcruise]

I'm in the process of drawing up a kids rifle at this time.  LOP will be 11.5 inches.  I'm having a devil of a time with decisions regarding the length of the wrist.  So far my wrist and comb look a lot like the photo above by Wyosmith.

Any suggestions on this?  I realize I have not asked a concise question, but neither do I expect a precise answer.  Just would like to hear some thoughts on kid rifle buttstock proportions, wrist length and so forth.

[Captchee]

steve covered it.
i would also suggest using the golden mean. this is what was used to  proportion.

In fact the more we study original pieces. the more it shown that they were laid out based on the 3 to 5 ratio of the mean
Using it will give you  a properly proportioned rifle. No mater the size or experience level of the maker.

 don’t get caught up in the math of the mean . all you need is a simply made divider that’s built to give you a 3 to 5 ratio .
Basically when opened. To 3 inches on one side. The other  end will be open to 5 inches .

Using that divider will let you proportion using the mean with out the brain freeze of higher math

[Captchee]

ok sorry fellas . i meant to get back here and  show you all what i was getting at .
 a  fella named  Patrick Hallman  did a study of this subject many years back , with the help  of Chuck Dixon.
Sadly Patrick is no longer with us .
 But he put his findings down in a book called ;Seeing through the eyes of Yesterday ., The Kentucky Rifle and the Golden Mean .
  Im not sure if the book is still in print or not . But  for thos inspiring to do their own layouts , its IMO  a very valuable  thesis .

 He shows  how  many rifles were laid out using the Golden mean . and the 3 to 5 rule of proportioning .
 Everything from the lock mortises ,   wrists , patch box, lengths of pull , trigger placements. Even finials and such .
 Here  is a scan from  Patrick’s writing   showing the  layout and how the Mean  was use by John Armstrong



 Now when I built Magpies little NW trade gun , I followed the  rules of the Mean  so as to properly proportion the rifle to him . The only exception was  that I enlarged the length of pull  so as if he did grow alittle more . The rifle  would still fit him .
 This video is of the Christmas party where  Magpie was given the rifle .
 At the time , he was 12 . As you can see , because of his illness . He is  no bigger then his 5 year old brother sitting on the floor next to him .. But by Using the mean . the rifle is proportioned correctly to  his size .
 Sorry the video may be  very large for those on dial up to download

 i will say that  even today , no rifle has ever brought me more joy to build then Johns little smoothbore

[Spotted Bull]

Awesome video Cap...That's what its all about brother!