KILTS IN THE FUR TRADE

[Firewalker]

Aye, and a good discussion gentlemen!

[Puffer]

Now were was I  :shock:  As I mentioned, I have a little experience )

If you want to be HC, then ? You can come close (style sett ), but as Kermit said, DYES. ( although I do know a "Lady" that is now dying/preparing/spinning wool per "period" & is trying to "amass" enough to use to weave a "Tartan" ( she figures about 5 years from now  

OH YEH, IMO. If you claim HC in clothing, then if you wear linen, you had better "document" that it was grown, prepared, woven etc per "period ( trust me making linen is a "BI^ch  before the "industrial age.)

Again, do your best & DO NOT Make claims. I, even @ my "best",I tell people that what I wear is simply a "representation"to the best I can present, but NOT PERFECT Then go out, wear the Kilt & have Fun.

puffer.

[Loyalist Dave]

Well Lad, if you are Black Douglas and no friend of any Watch nor of the Campbells, then we be friends for I am of the Sept Abbot of the Highland Clan MacNab, and we were run out of the Highlands by the Campbells and their ilk.     Immigrated to Canada, and kept moving west ahead of government, finally my grandfather came down into Idaho from Canada in 1899.

LD

[Puffer]

Well Lad, if you are Black Douglas and no friend of any Watch nor of the Campbells, then we be friends for I am of the Sept Abbot of the Highland Clan MacNab, and we were run out of the Highlands by the Campbells and their ilk.    :shock:
What I do know, is that one of the "Hayden" holdings was held by "branch" & the "eldest Son" fell in Love with a "Black Douglas Lass"
OOOPS.  The "Hayden family SAID NO WAY. Marry her & you are "cut off." He said ( basically "up yours", Married Her, went to "Holland", boarded a ship ( 1622 ) & came to the "colonies".
Was He "cut off = yes, but He had some $$$ ( established a "plantation" & was successful  ( by the  Amer. cival war my direct ancestor owned a large "plantation" in Missouri ( another story)

Obviously, My Black Douglas, Blood line is "Matriarchal" But this "Lady" is " proudly" referred/ respected" to ( as are the other
 Ladies ) Also note, the "Black Douglas" Historian, has "formally" made me a part of the "family"  but, a "Hayden rel. in Can. imparted that His "family" ( Hayden) was involved with "Fur Trade" ( HBC & still hold a 'fair amount of stock) )
 
His direct rel. Worked for the HBC & in 1812 formed a Can. Militia Rifle Co.. & gave me permission to use & off I went.  :shock: ) & yes my ancestors may take up "arms" against" me.

Puffer

[Kermit]

Hey, Puffer, I thought I'd bring this back up. I've been doing some reading on-line, and what I'm learning is that my two knife pleated kilts are probably not appropriate. It was apparently a style that gained popularity during the 19th century, becoming the full-blown 8/9-yard kilt late in the century. What I'm reading is that the kilt of the 18th and early 19th century was box pleated. Cheaper to make too, since it only takes about 4 yards of cloth to do. Also, solids are appropriate, especially if Irish, but certainly HC in Scotland too.

Here's a look, and how to get started with a book and this on-line supplement so you can make your own box pleated small kilt. I think I'm going to give it a try.

http://www.scottishtartans.org/boxpleat.html

Download the low-res version if you're just having a look. Be aware that this is a supplement to the book that can be ordered. I haven't found it as a downloadable file.

So much to learn...

[Puffer]

Hey, Puffer, I thought I'd bring this back up. I've been doing some reading on-line, and what I'm learning is that my two knife pleated kilts are probably not appropriate. It was apparently a style that gained popularity during the 19th century, becoming the full-blown 8/9-yard kilt late in the century. What I'm reading is that the kilt of the 18th and early 19th century was box pleated. Cheaper to make too, since it only takes about 4 yards of cloth to do. Also, solids are appropriate, especially if Irish, but certainly HC in Scotland too.

Here's a look, and how to get started with a book and this on-line supplement so you can make your own box pleated small kilt. I think I'm going to give it a try.

http://www.scottishtartans.org/boxpleat.html

Download the low-res version if you're just having a look. Be aware that this is a supplement to the book that can be ordered. I haven't found it as a downloadable file.

So much to learn...

:lol:



For Me, My "4-5 yd. box pleat does the job from 1800 +++ ( def. HC)  BUT, I wear my MoD knife & Mil. Box kilts often ( late 1820s ++ , may not be HC but NEITHER am I    

Kermit, Make the BOX & enjoy.

Jack

[Kermit]

So I'm wondering if, given the technology of the times, the knife-pleated kilt which used far more fabric, was an item of the more relatively wealthy, while the box-pleated was a more economical choice? Thanks for pointing out the side-by-side existence of the two types. If nothing else, it shows that a box-pleated kilt would certainly be an appropriate choice for a "re-enactor."

Got me thinking about another kilt, fella! Like muzzleloaders, can one have too many?
 

[Puffer]

Just one added thought, I am unsure of the pattern that Matt offers. If you are making it for "period" be sure to make it with a waist height that is 2" - 3" higher than what your civilian kilts are. My "period is 3".



Jack

[Puffer]

So I'm wondering if, given the technology of the times, the knife-pleated kilt which used far more fabric, was an item of the more relatively wealthy, while the box-pleated was a more economical choice? Thanks for pointing out the side-by-side existence of the two types. If nothing else, it shows that a box-pleated kilt would certainly be an appropriate choice for a "re-enactor."

Got me thinking about another kilt, fella! Like muzzleloaders, can one have too many?
   
Jack

[Kermit]

Interesting--at least to the two of us! So when you talk of the top of the waistband being higher, where does the top land on you, anatomically? Bottom of the ribcage?

I learned the "wearing of the kilt" from an old Scot, and he was RABID that most Americans wore them like their trousers--way too low. That applies to both the top and the bottom. He also went apoplectic seeing guys wearing the kilt with a regular suitcoat or sportcoat that was WAYWAY to long. He had me get measured to have the top edge ride a couple of inches above the navel and the bottom in NO CASE below the middle of the kneecap. On my second (dress) kilt, I had it tailored to the top of the kneecap. Gets the ladies attention when dancing! :th dn

I see "Utilikilts" as an abomination, but maybe it's a start?

I've loved seeing the young lads in Scotland in kilts. They wear 'em with whatever else they want. DocMartins boots to sandals, sweaters to tank tops. But always the tartan kilt. Modern kilt wearing seems almost a free-for-all there, EXCEPT for the tailoring and the fit. Still very traditional.

[Puffer]

Interesting--at least to the two of us! So when you talk of the top of the waistband being higher, where does the top land on you, anatomically? Bottom of the ribcage?

I learned the "wearing of the kilt" from an old Scot, and he was RABID that most Americans wore them like their trousers--way too low. That applies to both the top and the bottom. He also went apoplectic seeing guys wearing the kilt with a regular suitcoat or sportcoat that was WAYWAY to long. He had me get measured to have the top edge ride a couple of inches above the navel and the bottom in NO CASE below the middle of the kneecap. On my second (dress) kilt, I had it tailored to the top of the kneecap. Gets the ladies attention when dancing! :th dn

I see "Utilikilts" as an abomination, but maybe it's a start? :shock:
 
I like Your "old Scot."

BTW, if you want a Kilt that REALLY sways ( walking or other ) then get a Military Box pleat. I own 2 & trust me they are great  ( they hang more even than "knives" & "sway == on both sides  

The "kids" , hey this "old man" wears as Attire" ergo, my top garb is out of my closet most often. ( no Ts, but hoodies,sweaters,team jackets etc. etc.)

 what I mean


(LSR)
Jack

[Kermit]

I seem to recall that military box pleats command an extra $200 or so to make--if you can find the maker who has the skill. And you have two? I'm impressed.

Also impressed with your photos. Thanks. Proof positive that the kilt is a most versatile garment. With a Mariners jacket at a baseball game? YES!

BTW, I like that solid. What's the fabric?

We need to continue this discussion over ale(s) sometime. Or a bottle of haggis gravy.

[Riley/MN]

Is there any decent way to "take in" a kilt? I'm down 42lbs and continuing... (23 more & I'll be happy)

(okay, I am happy anyway - 23 more lbs would make me happier!)

I don't think suspenders would look right....

[Kermit]

Riley--the answer is yes, but you need a kiltmaker to do it, or risk getting back "something like a kilt." If you can contact a pipe band in your area, you might get recommendations. Of course, Puffer might know too!

[Puffer]

I seem to recall that military box pleats command an extra $200 or so to make--if you can find the maker who has the skill. And you have two? I'm impressed.

Also impressed with your photos. Thanks. Proof positive that the kilt is a most versatile garment. With a Mariners jacket at a baseball game? YES!

BTW, I like that solid. What's the fabric?

We need to continue this discussion over ale(s) sometime. Or a bottle of haggis gravy. :walk  

Jack