New, antique, or relic?

[prairie dog]

I didn't want to add any more contention to the yellow leggins thread so I thought it might be best to start a new one for these thoughts.

I have noticed at least three different schools of thought among rendezvous folks in regards to the appearance of the items they reproduce and use.  I don't believe any are more or less "right" just different.  And it has had me thinking as I build my own outfit.

It appears to me some folks build their rifles, knifes, shooting bags, clothing and what-have-you with an intentional "antiqued finish".  Those antiqued items are very attractive, but to my eye they look like they belong behind glass in a museum.  I can't imagine that anyone would have actually been wearing or using items which had one hundred years of "antique patina".


Another style I notice are those who make their items look like they were just dug up from an archeological site.  For example; the Old Hickory knives that get buried in the back yard, dug up, and abused with all types of citric acids to make new ones look old.  Again, I can't imagine a backwoodsman carrying a relic that looks like it spent the last 100 years buried under a chicken coop.

Perhaps these fake finishes are done to give the user the appearance of having spent many years in the backwoods?  If so, I would think that a very lightly used look would be better than a heavy patina?

I am not condemning any of these styles.  It just makes me wonder what the maker was trying to achieve?  Was he creating a reproduction of a museum piece or a reproduction relic?  And would a person be carrying or using a relic as an everyday tool?

For my self, I've decided to avoid the antiqued finishes and just allow time and use out-of-doors to rub off the "new".
Have any of you any thoughts to share?  Antiques, relics, or new?

BTW, next rendezvous you attend look for me.  I'm the dude who looks like a greenhorn.  

[Two Steps]

PD...I agree with your thoughts.  Never made any sense to me to carry around things that look 200 years old.  If that's what folks want...that's just great for them.  Now there's not much I can do about me looking like an antique  
Al

[greyhunter]

Good observation PD, I would imagine a native would have preferred a bright shiny knife to one that looked like a many traded item. I'm sure NA and colonials, later trappers etc. would have been as concerned with their good appearance as much as any modern day Dandy. You would want to look good if you were about to meet the Great Spirit! That being said, I do admire the efforts of our craftsmen and women here on the forum for the fine foofaraw and eye candy they make.  

[pathfinder]

Having been an Antique restorer/re-finisher/reproducer for better than 45 years,there are as many way's to antique thing's as there are thing's! I prefer to make my stuff as new,without a lot of fine finishing,and USE IT A LOT! Natural patina can only be done "naturally". Those of us in the "Biz" can spot artificial aging a mile away.

[Capt. Jas.]

Nothing adds patina like the true patina of time and use.
Some people buy the heavily aged stuff because it appeals to them but as far as historic portrayal, the logic is not there.
Some like it because they can double it's use as home decoration when real antiques are beyond their price range.

Some like the mildly aged items as they give a believable impression of period use over a given time frame. This is helpful when one does not use and store the item every day in a period context. Most people do not have the time in modern life to expose their gear to the wear and tear that actually happened in the period so a little of the newness edge knocked off is helpful. I like this realm as it can give a true impression of use if done correctly. Most is overdone though and few have mastered this. For historic purposes everything had to be new at some time but it's best to vary them. For example, you can tell the fellow whose wife just bought him a complete new wardrobe to go out to eat while on vacation. His shoes are unscuffed, new belt, everything matching and crisp off the shelf. He sticks out like a sore thumb.

As pathfinder said, most aging techniques can be picked up quickly by the trained eye as false but there are a few who fool even the best.

The crisp and new stuff just does not sell as well and if vendors offer that type of thing it is usually of a lesser grade of material and workmanship (or with less workmanship) so they do not lose their shirts on it.
You mention rendezvous settings and in that venue, the believable historic scenario is usually not really a factor so the aged stuff as well as the new is generally accepted in all their variants as long as it's primitive.

[pathfinder]

All my gear varies in age,except ME! My "good" skin's are nearly 30yrs old any my shirt is new. My haversack is medium age and my shooting bag is kinda new. 1 knife is new,and one is very old.I figure a guy out there back then didn't keep everything he had forever,thing's were constantly breaking,getting lost,ect... Someone commented once a long time ago that my partner at the time and myself alway's looked like we just came back from a 2 year trekk and the others in our group look like they just came from K-Mart! I'll take that as a compliment!!!!!

[mario]

I think much of it boils down to people wanting to look like they've "seen the elephant" without having had to scoop the poop.

And then there are some folks who refuse to believe that people 200 years ago actually bought new stuff on occasion...

Mario

[Loyalist Dave]

I agree with both PD and Captain Jas..., I always wondered why folks with horns dated say 1757 and attending F&I Events, wanted them antiqued as though the horns were several decades old, and as though the actual date they were portraying was the last year of the Revolution...

I also know some nice fellows who volunteer at historic sites, give rifle demonstrations, and teach tourists (the vast majority of which are high school age or younger) about the colonial era.  Alas but health concerns and time constraints mean these fellows don't get to overnight or experience the bad weather that would put the proper patina on a rifle,..., so theirs are artificially aged a bit.

Now I volunteered to take their rifles out for about a year at least once a month to get authentic aging..., but they didn't "go" for that suggestion.  HEY I was trying to help!  

LD

[Gordon H.Kemp]

This is just my observation and is not to belittle anyones preferences . But one thing missing from these equations is the social status of the times being portrayed.
Many of the trappers and adventures of those days were from familys that were on the bottom rungs of the social/monatary ladder . They would be forced to start their journeys with whatever kit they could assemble that was still servicable . On a different note , those who  were from more affluent backgrounds would more then likely have a kit with well made new items .
      The wealthest usually entered the fur trades etc. with an eye on the bottom line and became the managers of different groups of trappers etc.
      Many of the men who served as the actual active trappers and had come from a poorer background , had many of the skills needed to survive in the primative lifestyle required to be successfull .
      As to wether or not antiqueing guns and equipment is right wrong or indifferent , has to be decided on by the individual . For me , my gear seems to take on enough chacter without trying to fake it.
                     :USA  

[rickevans]

Several good comments here. Like Two steps said

But I prefer to be the oldest looking part of my kit  
Al

I am re-doing much of my kit, from socks to hat. Buying or making new and then artificially ageing a bit thru more (everyday) use. I wear my workman's cap while in the forge and cutting the grass. Same with breeches and shirt.  Yes, the neigghbors do point and stare...

My next (as yet undefined) rifle gun will be built as new and I will wear the snot outa it. Also...Pathfinder makes a fine point

...I figure a guy out there back then didn't keep everything he had forever,thing's were constantly breaking,getting lost,ect...

.
So some things will be old, some new, some rode hard and some taken great care of.  Good thread.

[prairie dog]

Rick,

I've noticed you are selling off some of your stuff and you mention changing your kit.  What are you changing to?  When are you going to revel the new outfit?

[rickevans]

Well...it depends. I want two long guns, a good small caliber (.32 or .36 or .40) rifle for squirrels, bunnies, woodchucks and those very small Georgia does that make such fine eating...and a smooth bore. I have not decided yet on a fowler, "Carolina" Gun, fusil fin, or?

My time frame is just after the AWI, maybe 1780-1800 time frame. I have many of the proper clothes and small goods for that period.

It all depends on 1) If I continue to work 2) Where I re-retire and 3) What strikes my fancy when I have the cash in pocket.

[Stormrider51]

PD brought up something I've wondered about for some time.  I consider what anyone chooses to do with their gear to be their business.  I can understand "ageing" a powder horn other non-metallic item if the owner doesn't use it enough for the item to gain that look naturally.  On the other hand I just don't understand when I see knives, hawks, firearms, etc that have pitting in the metal caused by someones effort to make the item look "aged".  Our forefathers usually took good care of their tools and wanted them to last as long as possible.  As a matter of fact, how well one took care of their possessions was considered to be an indicator of their character.  A wealthy person might have items that were more ornate and/or expensive but a poor man kept what he had in the best possible condition as well.  I have a hunting bag that I made in 1973 and a powder horn I made in 1969.  Both show the years and use but both are still serviceable.  The leather of the bag has been kept oiled and is still in excellent condition.  The horn has yellowed and picked up some peck marks but still keeps powder dry.  My patch knife dates from the same time as the bag.  It is carbon steel and as such has turned dark with time but it is not pitted because it has never been allowed to rust.  As for a firearm, one sure way to cause my father to flay the hide off me was to allow it to show rust.

As I said at the outset, what someone chooses to do with their gear and how they want it to look is their business and none of mine.  But it is my opinion, and opinion is the lowest form of knowledge, that folks who intentionally damage metal objects in the effort to make them look old are not giving a true representation of the people and time they are demonstrating.  Just my two cents.

Storm

[Gordon H.Kemp]

Storm , one of the old sayings , was , "you can tell a mans worth , by the way he keeps his tools".