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Author Topic: Lead Pipe!!!!!!!!  (Read 989 times)

Offline Swamp

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Lead Pipe!!!!!!!!
« on: October 22, 2012, 03:04:55 PM »
I want to share with you an incident that happened to me yesterday. I was able to get some me time, and decided that I need to get all my lead pipe melted down, cleaned, and poured into ingots. It was a nice day, so I gathered up all my stuff into my yard card behind the tractor, and headed out back to do all this melting. I had a lot of lead pipe, and it was cut down into 8 to 10" sections. I fired up the burner, and put the cast iron dutch oven on the burner, and set several pieces of pipe into the pot. All melted down nicely, but there was a lot of crud on top to skim off, no problem.

I decided to put a few more peices of pipe in the pot before I started dipping to pour into the ingot mold. Now something told me to drop this pipe into the already molten lead, and step back away from it! Well, all I can say, is never doubt your instinct. I dropped in this particular piece and moved back quickly! THANK GOD I DID! The peice of pipe sat for a few seconds, and then I heard a huge pop, and molten lead was flying everywhere! Thank God I listened to my instincts and did what I did! If I had been in the spot I was working in next to the pot, I would have been right in the path of the molten lead!

So, why did this happen? I think we all know, that peice of pipe had some water trapped in it. Now, this pipe had a bunch of dried up crud on the inside of it in some locations. When I chopped it into workable size peices, sometime one end was clear, and the other end would have some deposits. Long story short, there obviously was a section with some trapped water in it.

SO, for those of you who melt lead pipe to run your own ball, make sure you can see thru the peice your working with, or better yet, cut into small sections so you CAN see thru it to make sure there is no trapped water in it!

Use this example to keep yourself safe! I was damn lucky, and I have changed my ways when dealing with lead pipe I assure you!

Be safe, and trust your instincts! AND, remember what happen to me when you are dealing with lead pipe!
Swamp
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Offline R.M.

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Re: Lead Pipe!!!!!!!!
« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2012, 03:30:04 PM »
Yup, always add pipe to an empty pot. The moisture will evaporate as it warms up. I've had pipe that sat in the shed for a couple of years, and it still held moisture. A steam explosion is not something you want to have happen. Glad you came out without any major damage.
R.M.
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Offline Uncle Russ

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Re: Lead Pipe!!!!!!!!
« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2012, 03:39:38 PM »
Yep, happens every time!
Thank goodness you came out okay!  :bow
 
Just moving pre-cast ingots from outside, to a warmer temperature inside, will do the exact same thing from the condensation that we can't even see, and when that happens it's nothing to sneeze at!

You are lucky Swamp, very lucky!

I have a friend in El Paso Texas that was not so lucky when handling ingots in a similar environment.
He now has a glass eye, and some very ugly scars on his chin, neck and throat.

Casting your own can add a whole new experience to your shooting game, but there are several safety precautions that simply can't be ignored.

Uncle Russ...
It's the many things we don't do that totally sets us apart.
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Offline Gordon H.Kemp

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Re: Lead Pipe!!!!!!!!
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2012, 06:02:04 PM »
:salute
Gordy
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Offline Stormrider51

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Re: Lead Pipe!!!!!!!!
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2012, 11:16:03 PM »
Excellent post.  It's impossible to stress enough the danger of molten lead and water.  Even a drop of sweat from your face falling into the pot can cause an impressive amount of lead to be thrown around.  Molten lead is at least 622 degrees F.  Water boils at 212 degrees.  Water striking molten lead doesn't just evaporate, it converts to steam instantly and explosively.  Be careful!

Storm
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Offline R.M.

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Re: Lead Pipe!!!!!!!!
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2012, 11:23:30 PM »
Gotta disagree with ya Storm. It's when the moisture gets under the surface that blows. A drop on the surface will just bounce around till it evaporates.
A case in point, I chew, and when I'm done, I sit the wad on top of the melt. Gives a nice pipe type aroma. If that old wives tale about a drop on the surface blowing, would my wad not cause it to explode?
R.M.
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Offline Stormrider51

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Re: Lead Pipe!!!!!!!!
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2012, 11:43:39 PM »
Don't know, RM.  What I do know is that I once had a drop of sweat from my face fall into the pot just as I was dipping a ladle full of lead.  I still have the scars on my wrist from the eruption.  The size of the drop and how fast it is introduced to the metal maybe?

Storm
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Offline Uncle Russ

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Re: Lead Pipe!!!!!!!!
« Reply #7 on: October 23, 2012, 02:21:33 AM »
My experience on the subject is much as follows.
I have been casting for well over fifty years, and I have cast a lot of bullets in that time.

I will start out by saying I can offer no explanation whatsoever for what happened in Gordy's situation.
Still yet, there is no way I can simply discard Gordy's story, as I have known him far too long for that. If Gordy tells you it is going to rain, you would be wise to get an umbrella, or go inside.
I do have to think that there are likely several things that none of us know about in Gordy's story, even a thing or two that Gordy himself is not aware of.

Having said all that, I will now say this.......you can start with water present, a few ounces in the pot with the ingots , or even a pint of water in the pot with the ingots before the pot is turned on.
Once you bring that pot to a melting temp of somewhere between 600 - 700 degrees Fahrenheit the water is long gone, cooked away, converted to steam and evaporated, not even a single drop will be left and you can cast in comfort and without fear....no explosion, no sputtering or rippling.

Now, turn that situation around.... where you already have a hot "melt' running 600 - 700 degrees Fahrenheit, and a drop of water, even a drop of sweat, should accidentally hit the surface of that melt, you will likely get a a little sputtering of the melt, and 'some' may even jump out of the pot....if there is a small "popping noise" you can be sure at least a drop of two of melt has popped out of the pot, but basically it is a done deal, it is over with.
 
BUT....if that drop of sweat, or water from any source, even the least miniscule amount, and it somehow gets under the surface, such as adding ingots that were brought in from a cold freezing environment outside, and which may have a sheet of unseen ice on it, or maybe adding scrap lead pipe with with water in or on it, you can bet you are going to be in for a Pot Explosion of the worst kind.

Both RM and myself are longtime casters and we've traded information on the subject for sometime now.
Many years ago I had a small side-line business selling cast bullets.
I likely made enough money to pay the gas, and pay the set-up fees at different gun shows, and I eventually ended up with a fair Internet sales as I did have a fairly nice following under the brand name of RBak Kustom KAST...if you should have one of my old boxes with my label on it, hang onto it, it may be worth a cup of Jo on down the road.  :oops:
I have cast thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, from round ball to long, heavy, Postell Type bullets.
BHN's from 6 to 22, and more, plus a special duplex bullet with a BHN 14 nose and a BHN 6 concave base, or the same thing with a Gas Check.
I have cast Minie Ball, Maxi Ball, truncated base,  hollow base, and even spitzer type bullets of pure Linotype.

When I moved to my new retirement home, six years ago this year, this is what my "stash" looked like in the shop, and I had another 1,200# in ingots behind the shed in Kitty Litter Buckets, (square buckets that stack very well.)

If I'm not mistaken there is about 350 / 375# pure lead ingots in that left stack.

Here is one picture of some of my Moulds.....Last count I had about 65 different moulds.

RCBS, SAECO, LYMAN, IDEAL, Rapine, Hoch, Lee, NOE, three or four Jeff Tanner, and one, maybe two LBT Moulds. For years, I have always been a fan of Lee Moulds.
But, if I had to live with only one mould, and I had to actually shoot every bullet that came from that mould, I couldn't reject a single bullet.....then I "think" I would select a nice 4 banger from SAECO.
Man! they make a beautiful mould!

Casting is a fun hobby, it is another of those things where you learn something new every single day.
I strongly encourage casting, and I will help any TMA member that comes to me with a question....if I don't know the answer, I associate with a group that can answer any question.

Now, you can't talk about casting without talking about safety, and I am HEAVY on the safety part.
I don't believe you can repeat some very basic rules too much......
*Always wear Safety Glasses...not just your everyday prescription glasses, but real safety glasses too.
*Always wear a Heavy-Duty apron.
*Be sure you are dressed properly with a long sleeve shirt, preferably cotton, and no loose fitting clothing.
*Always wear your work boots, or hunting boots.
*Always wear heavy glove, on each hand!
*When you advance to the stage for "WDH"....{water dropped hardening} be sure the bucket of water you are dropping the hot bullet in is located behind yo,u and to your left.
If you cast holding the mould in your left hand and knock the sprue with your right hand.....make sure the water bucket is behind you and to your right if you hold the mould in the right hand and knock the sprue with your left hand.

I am sincerely happy that nothing happened to Swamp, other than a good wake-up call, and he will recover nicely from that, but I betcha he don't forget it no time soon.

Uncle Russ...
It's the many things we don't do that totally sets us apart.
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Offline pathfinder

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Re: Lead Pipe!!!!!!!!
« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2012, 11:33:26 AM »
We're going to have a meeting of the "Disorganized Shop club" and advise that YOU and SWAMP be given 30 day's to make your shop's "right"(ie;,messy)or we will messy it for you! It amazies me as to how you guy's have such a neat work area! I've tried time and time again to do the same,I FAIL everytime!

As usuall Uncle Russ,great advice. Saftey is NOTHING to be taken for granted.
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NMLRA

Offline Gordon H.Kemp

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Re: Lead Pipe!!!!!!!!
« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2012, 12:01:46 PM »
Unc.Russ, thanks for the vote of confidence , I had to let out the adjustment on my hat , as my head got to swelling. :th up  Up untill the incident I had only cast fishing sinkers with a home made mold . After much discussing and speculation with the other craftmen on the job , we basicly decided the pot had some chunks and pieces thowed on top of the solidified slug in the pot and when the main slug melted it allowed a chunk of the lead on top to tumble into the melted
 lead . :th dn .Being that my back was toward the pot , I couldn,t  offer any thing that may have caused the problem .  :th up
Gordy
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Offline Swamp

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Re: Lead Pipe!!!!!!!!
« Reply #10 on: October 23, 2012, 03:02:50 PM »
I just wanted to share what happened to me, and I want everyone to be educated from this situation! Lead pipe is great soft lead, BUT MAKE SURE you can see thru the piece your adding to the pot, ie, no crimped ends from cutting, whatever. I was damn lucky I trusted my instinct and stepped way back after I added that piece.

I WILL NEVER FORGET THAT TRUST ME!  :shock:
Swamp
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Offline Kermit

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Re: Lead Pipe!!!!!!!!
« Reply #11 on: December 05, 2012, 02:21:18 PM »
Not just safety glasses--a face shield. Cheap insurance for that pretty face of yours, and the eyes you use to admire yourself in the mirror.
"Anything worth doing is worth doing slowly."
Mae West

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Offline Hanshi

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Re: Lead Pipe!!!!!!!!
« Reply #12 on: December 05, 2012, 05:20:53 PM »
Most of my molds are from Lee, too.  Take care of them and they give excellent service.
Young guys should hang out with old guys; old guys know stuff.