To Lube or Not To Lube...

[Cannonball]

I have a couple of questions...

1) Does lubing with a product other than spit increase or decrease fouling?
2) If I use a solvent to lube my pactches do I need to clean the barrel after shooting beyond running a brush down the barrel to break up hard scale build up from the bp?
3) If I use a tallow product (mink oil, renderings, etc.) will I need to do a complete clean of the barrel including brushing and solvent and oil?

Two no lube questions: 1) Patch thickness, I've tried to shoot 0.018" patches and can't get more than 2 or 3 down the barrel but that's like the most popular size available. I shoot a 0.440" ball. 2) If I cut my own and want to pre cut them how large should I cut the squares" I've seen 1.7x ball diameter or 1.7x0.440=0.748" or roughly a 3/4" square. Will that work?

Thanks

[greyhunter]

Just got some dry patches .010 and .015 from Track Of The Wolf, they had a sale on em. You can get lubed patches also from them. As for fouling, what powder are you using? 2f will build up faster than 3f, and cold temps increase fouling also. No matter what you use for lube, it will not protect the barrel for storage if that is what you are asking. When I shoot and rifle gets tighter to load I just run a wet(water,or solvent) patch down the bore followed by a few dry patches and go back to shooting. Whatever you use for lube gets mixed with the burnt powder and will clean up readily with a wet patch. Patch size depends on ball size. Try lubing a strip of patch material and set the ball on it and cut off excess at the muzzle. Pull it and you will have your size. regards GH, Hope this helps ya!

[Cannonball]

I'm using 3f powder and I live in the PAC Northwest so I'm always cold.

[greyhunter]

Well, yer not the first one ta burn 3f powder in the PAC, so you will haf to adapt and overcome. I have faith you will do well.

[Uncle Russ]

Wiping and cleaning is a necessary evil in the sport of Muzzleloading.
Square patches shoot just as well as round patches.
Spit is good.
Lubed patches do not appear to shoot better, or get more shots between wiping than spit patches.
FFFg is a bit more cleaning burning than FFg, Fg, or Cannon grade......but that is all subjective. Constant, predictable accuracy is where you find it.

Don't know what to tell you about living in the Pacific Northwest....but, if you live on the peninsula or the West slope of the mountains, you gotta keep your powder dry. Not a whole different than living here in the Basin.

Sometime when you're out and about, drop in for a cup of Jo....coffee pot is on all the time and good company is always appreciated.

Uncle Russ...

[Fletcher]

I don't know how to do the "quote thing" but here are my experiences:

1) Does lubing with a product other than spit increase or decrease fouling?

Totally depends on the lube and the shooting conditions.  From my experience 'spit' patches are hard
to regulate the amount of moisture in the patch and they are the most prone to catching fire after the shot.

I like a water base lube for range shooting and trail walks - it self cleans and is the least likely to catch fire.
I like a natural product waterproof lube for hunting since it can sit on a load all day without contaminating
the powder.  It is more prone to fouling that water base - but I hardly ever use more than a couple patches
a day when hunting.

2) If I use a solvent to lube my patches do I need to clean the barrel after shooting beyond running a brush
down the barrel to break up hard scale build up from the bp?

I always use and recommend a decent black powder solvent for a 'range cleaning' - usually fine for a whole
weekend event.  I completely break down the guns after I get them home for a full cleaning. I do have one
flintlock that is 'pinned' and not wedged - so it only gets a complete strip a couple times a year.

3) If I use a tallow product (mink oil, renderings, etc.) will I need to do a complete clean of the barrel including brushing and solvent and oil?

I would definitely say yes.  These lubes will foul and the barrel will need a good cleaning when your hunt/event
is over.

Two no lube questions: 1) Patch thickness, I've tried to shoot 0.018" patches and can't get more than 2 or 3 down the barrel but that's like the most popular size available. I shoot a 0.440" ball.

I have a couple .45 rifles and one pistol and the .018 is just too tight for any of them.  I like the .015 better.
I would use a .010 with a .0445 ball - but I could only find .440 molds !

2) If I cut my own and want to pre cut them how large should I cut the squares" I've seen 1.7x ball diameter or 1.7x0.440=0.748" or roughly a 3/4" square. Will that work?

A 3/4" square should be fine for .45 balls- but if I were to use other than a round precut patch, I am more
likely to use a long strip of cotton cloth the right thickness - and then just trim with a patch knife after the
ball is short started.  I personally do not like the idea of 'square' edges  around my seated ball.

I am sure that there are plenty on the forum who will agree or disagree with my experience - all or in part.
That is why we allow free speech and respect opinions.  At 63 years old but only 25 years muzzleloading - I
am far from being an 'old timer' or 'expert'

[Stormrider51]

I have a couple of questions...

1) Does lubing with a product other than spit increase or decrease fouling?
It depends on what lube you use.  While there are others who say they never wipe the bore between shots I've never been able to make that work for me and get best accuracy.

2) If I use a solvent to lube my pactches do I need to clean the barrel after shooting beyond running a brush down the barrel to break up hard scale build up from the bp?
Black powder is corrosive.  There's no getting around cleaning the gun after a shooting session unless you want a real education in rust.  The good news is that black powder fouling is water soluble.  Plain old water is the best cleaning agent followed by dry patches and then liberal oiling of the bore.

3) If I use a tallow product (mink oil, renderings, etc.) will I need to do a complete clean of the barrel including brushing and solvent and oil?
Look back at #2.  There's no getting around cleaning.  You can lose the brushes and solvent.  A nice tight patch on a cleaning jag and pumping water in and out of the bore does the trick.  It takes me about 15 minutes to clean my smoothie and I've never had a rust problem.

Two no lube questions: 1) Patch thickness, I've tried to shoot 0.018" patches and can't get more than 2 or 3 down the barrel but that's like the most popular size available. I shoot a 0.440" ball.
Wipe the bore after each shot and you won't have a problem.
 2) If I cut my own and want to pre cut them how large should I cut the squares" I've seen 1.7x ball diameter or 1.7x0.440=0.748" or roughly a 3/4" square. Will that work?
Why not just cut them at the muzzle from a strip of patching?  Each one will be exactly the right size if you do.

Thanks

Hope this helps,
Storm

[Cannonball]

I should clarify, I’m not trying to get out of cleaning my gun just trying to understand what all the different options do. For instance if a spit patch shoots just as accurately as a store bought lubed patch and cleaning is no more or less with one than the other, then why spend the money on the store bought patch or even lube (weather not withstanding in the field during a hunt)?

I’m having issues with fouling because after 10 rounds or so (.440” ball and 0.015” patch)and it's almost impossible to get ball and patch down the barrel without a solid brass rod. So I’m trying to figure out if I need to bring a solvent with me on a trail shoot so I can clean the barrel every few shots.

Finally my rifle is short  and I’m a clutz (chuckles) so the idea of wielding a knife around my neck area while holding the gun and patch material and knife actually scares me! LOL So I’ll precut my patches.

Thanks for the input from everyone I do appreciate it and Uncle Russ I’ll be sure to stop in, I’ve always got time for a cup of coffee and a tall tale.

[rollingb]

I should clarify, I’m not trying to get out of cleaning my gun just trying to understand what all the different options do. For instance if a spit patch shoots just as accurately as a store bought lubed patch and cleaning is no more or less with one than the other, then why spend the money on the store bought patch or even lube (weather not withstanding in the field during a hunt)?

One thing you have to realize when using spit for a lube, is that spit actually "cuts" the black powder fouling, and loading with a SLOPPY WET SPIT PATCH, cuts the fouling even BETTER. (the same thing goes for the various water-based homemade concoctions of "moose-milk")

No "LUBE",... (as in a non-water based "lube")... will cut black powder fouling. The "job" of non-water based lubes, is to "coat" the bore of the muzzleloader when loading, so that the resulting fouling (after firing) is made SOFTER, making it easier to push down the bore when loading your next shot with a "lubed" patch.

Just think about it,... if a non-water based lube actually "cut" black powder fouling,.... then, YOU COULD USE IT TO "CLEAN" YOUR MUZZLELOADER, but,.... I'll guarantee you, THAT won't go well.        

I always use "spit" when shooting shots that are usually close together in time,... such as at shooting matchs, or at my shooting range.
I don't recommend using spit (or, any water based concoctions) for a "lube" when hunting, because you may go all day with the patch drying out in the breech of your muzzleloader, and that will increase the likelihood of the water in your spit creating a "rust ring" in the breech where the patch contacts the bore.

When hunting,... I use ONLY a bee's wax and bear oil mix for "lube" when I'm likely to shoot only a few shots during the entire day,.... BUT, when I'm at the range, I ONLY use spit for lube, because I can shoot repetitious shots for hours without having to  clean the bore.    

I’m having issues with fouling because after 10 rounds or so (.440” ball and 0.015” patch)and it's almost impossible to get ball and patch down the barrel without a solid brass rod. So I’m trying to figure out if I need to bring a solvent with me on a trail shoot so I can clean the barrel every few shots.

]Finally my rifle is short  and I’m a clutz (chuckles) so the idea of wielding a knife around my neck area while holding the gun and patch material and knife actually scares me! LOL So I’ll precut my patches.

Cutting patches "at the muzzle" is perfectly safe, when using the proper technique.
Just place the upright rifle between your knees,.... "start the ball" on the tail of your ticking strip,... hold the strip up with your left hand,... and cut the strip at the muzzle while holding the knife in your right hand, and cutting AWAY FROM YOU across the muzzle.
That is how I've done it (as a RIGHT HANDED SHOOTER), since 1967, and I've NEVER cut myself in all those years of shooting muzzleloaders.

[Uncle Russ]

I have long ago decided that 'cutting at the muzzle' is a really great deal if you are already using the Dutch Schutz method of dry lubing....you can keep a full roll of patchin material in the bag, and have a shorter piece hanging off the bag for shootin.

No lube, no grease, no need to continually wipe your hands....but all of that is extremely subjective and boils down to personal preference.

I wonder how Spotted Bull is doing with his little Patch Knife?
If he sees this he might chime in with some real pearls of wisdom....if he ain't already cut his thumb off!  

Uncle Russ...

[rollingb]

I have long ago decided that 'cutting at the muzzle' is a really great deal if you are already using the Dutch Schutz method of dry lubing....you can keep a full roll of patchin material in the bag, and have a shorter piece hanging off the bag for shootin.

No lube, no grease, no need to continually wipe your hands....but all of that is extremely subjective and boils down to personal preference.

I wonder how Spotted Bull is doing with his little Patch Knife?
If he sees this he might chime in with some real pearls of wisdom....if he ain't already cut his thumb off!  

Uncle Russ...

I rip my pillow ticking into 36" strips, then tie the end of a strip to the strap on my shooting bag.
When I'm at the range, I just stick about an 1 1/2" of the other end of the strip in my mouth and I'm ready to "load and shoot".
No mess, no fuss!

When hunting, I pre-cut and lube my patches, and carry them in a small tin in my shooting bag.

[Stormrider51]

Uncle Russ brought up something you might want to try.  I've used Schoultz "dry lube" technique for a while now and it works great.  I even use the dry lube patches in my smoothbore when shooting round ball.  I go one step further.  When I'm finished soaking the patching strips in the Ballistol and water solution I pour the leftover solution into a flask and use it to wet patches for wiping the bore between shots.  (I used to use spit but after two rounds of radioactive iodine my salivary glands don't work too good.)

Also in favor of cutting the patches at the muzzle, it can increase accuracy.  If the ball isn't centered perfectly on a precut patch, the patch may not peel away evenly from the ball after they leave the bore.  This can alter the flight path of the ball enough to cost you a shooting match if the competition is tough.  By cutting at the muzzle the ball is always perfectly centered.

Storm

[graybeard]

In reply to Cannonball's problems loading after several shots I take a damp cleaning patch and run it down the barrel at about target No. 9 on our woodswalk.  It will clean out enough goop to keep you loading the rest of the way.  graybeard

[No Rod]

Cutting patches "at the muzzle" is perfectly safe, when using the proper technique.
Just place the upright rifle between your knees,.... "start the ball" on the tail of your ticking strip,... hold the strip up with your left hand,... and cut the strip at the muzzle while holding the knife in your right hand, and cutting AWAY FROM YOU across the muzzle.
That is how I've done it (as a RIGHT HANDED SHOOTER), since 1967, and I've NEVER cut myself in all those years of shooting muzzleloaders.

Well maybe for you... the first time I tried it i stabbed myself! lol  

[Cannonball]

Cutting patches "at the muzzle" is perfectly safe, when using the proper technique.
Just place the upright rifle between your knees,.... "start the ball" on the tail of your ticking strip,... hold the strip up with your left hand,... and cut the strip at the muzzle while holding the knife in your right hand, and cutting AWAY FROM YOU across the muzzle.
That is how I've done it (as a RIGHT HANDED SHOOTER), since 1967, and I've NEVER cut myself in all those years of shooting muzzleloaders.

Well maybe for you... the first time I tried it i stabbed myself! lol  

SEEE that will be me! LOL