Can you identify this smoothbore?

[snake eyes]

[/quote] I'm sorry if it somehow offends you that I called my gun an English fowler although I'm not sure why it should.  Storm[/quote]

Storm,
          Its your gun and you like it, so you can call it a broomstick
if you want to.   [/color]

[Feltwad]

Stormrider

This piece does not offend me I was only stating the facts .You call it a English fowler  but it does not represent a English fowler , the name Fowler would have been more appropriate,you say the gun suits you so shoot it and enjoy it thats  what muzzle loading is all about .I will say again I am not offended only stating the facts.
Feltwad
A Flint Lock will not secure a chicken house door

[Stormrider51]

Felt,  Would you please educate me on what parts of my gun fail to qualify as being English style?  To my untrained eye the gun I have looks very close to the next to lowest on your rack.  Clearly I'm missing something.  Also, since I'm becoming more convinced that my gun started its life as a TOW kit, is their kit also incorrect?

Storm

[mario]

At first glance, I thought TVM English fowling piece. But I'm thinking you may be right with the ToW kit.

Does the barrel have any taper? IIRC, the basic barrel available with the kit doesn't have any taper.

Mario

[Stormrider51]

Mario,   The round portion of the barrel does not have any taper.  The fact that it transitions from octagonal to octagonal with the corners filed away to round looks like the ToW as does the spacing of the double wedding rings.  The front sight looks the same.  The only piece that isn't as shown on the fowler on Track's website is the trigger guard.  The front tang is much more elaborate but I found the exact trigger guard offered as a part.  I'm sure at this point it's a ToW gun.  I'd still like to know who the Crown over KJ marking belongs to but that may have to remain a mystery.  Thanks for your help.

Storm

[Feltwad]

Stormrider

Has for TOW kit I do not know this company and I do not work on repros . Has for muzzle loading I have been doing this for the past 65 years and restoration since the late 1950,s For what I can tell from the images ,most of diferences are  in the breech area with the  Lock, Trigger guard, Barrel breech and the side plate and worst is that lock housing moulding.
Feltwad
A Flint Lock will not secure a chicken house door

[Captchee]

It also looks to me to be made for ToW parts .
As to the markings . I don’t recognize  the initials. Over all the quality of workmanship  that I can see , looks  reasonable Stormrider ..
I wish that  someone would come up with and up dated list and information of makers marks . Even if it was nothing more then a list of makers across the US . IMO that surly would be helpful
As to the rest .
 Like the initials and the crown , it would appear  that who ever made it used their own  likes when choosing  parts and creating the moldings. Thus making it  their own  or making as someone  requested .
 Personally that’s  no more of an issue then someone  making  Bucks County    rifle  and not having the  molding just so , or having it to heavy or having an odd patch box . For that mater adding Engraving or a different type of engraving then was seen on  an original piece .
 IMO they can call it what ever they wish as they made it .
 LMAO  so how about we say you have an English fowler  not a Queens English fowler LOL

[Stormrider51]

FW,  Thank you for that information.  I have some reading to do.

Captchee,  Compiling a list of makers would be a huge undertaking.  There are far more people building muzzleloaders today than there ever have been and that includes the time when flintlocks represented the apex of firearm technology.  I may never know who KJ is but I do know good work when I see it.  All of the inletting and inlays look as though the wood grew around the metal.

Storm

[Captchee]

ya i know it would be a huge undertaking still would be  something that should be done

[Kermit]

At first glance, I thought TVM English fowling piece.
Mario

Thanks, Mario. I'm still trying to get people to call them "fowling pieces." A FOWLER is a PERSON who hunts FOWL using a FOWLING PIECE. Might as well call it a shotgun.

[russ t frizzen]

At first glance, I thought TVM English fowling piece.
Mario

Thanks, Mario. I'm still trying to get people to call them "fowling pieces." A FOWLER is a PERSON who hunts FOWL using a FOWLING PIECE. Might as well call it a shotgun.

Regardless of what we call it, it's a handsome piece. And Kermit is right. This is a pet peeve of mine too.
                                        Dan

[Stormrider51]

Off the subject a little, but how many of you remember how worked up John Baird got when Thompson Center dared to name their muzzleloader a "Hawken"?  LOL!  That gun wasn't even close to looking anything like anything Jake or Sam ever turned out.  I agreed with him.  Now I've heard them called "classics".

Storm

[Captchee]

yep that one got me just a little bit . what about the  new cva inline  CVA  being called a Mountain rifle .  LMAO  wait tell you see their plains rifle .
 But in the end it really doesn’t make any difference. At least no more then , cookie or biscuit  ,  English biscuit and an American biscuit ……………….
 The one that used to flip my father out was  service station attendants  asking if he wanted his motor oil checked .
 mine , well its those who  have modern reproductions stamped with period proofing marks all in the name of being PC.

[Stormrider51]

Charlie,
The one I got most ticked by was the CVA "Kentucky rifle" with the fore end made in two pieces joined by a brass plate.  My Dad got his hands on one and threw away everything but the barrel, lock, and buttplate.  He made a new maple stock in the Jacob Dickert style.  It was a good shooter.  I ended up with a CVA "Mountain Rifle" at one point.  I welded up the screw holes in the barrel rib and then soldered the rib in place.  Then I made up ramrod thimbles and soldered them on.  To round things out I cast a new nose cap because I couldn't stand the squared off look and screw holes of the original.  IIRC I modified the trigger guard as well.  It still didn't look like anything that actually existed in the past but it was better than where I started.  And I never have owned a TC "Hawken".  LOL!

Storm

[Captchee]

ya i wish CVA had just done the 2 piece stock the right way . it would have looked much better . and yes long rifles and fowlers were done  with 2 piece stocks . in fact if you go back and look at the photo that Feltwad posted , you will see a Fowling piece with a 2 piece stock .  If only CVA had done alittle more work LOL