Using plastic shot cups to increase range

[smokepole45]

I have reviewed to method for making paper shot cups to increase range. What about plastic shot cups like you can get from a re-loader's supply? I was thinking a load like powder/card/half a felt wad/plastic cup with shot/overshot card. Using a pre-slit cup with a flat base should work. Has anyone tried this?

[Two Steps]

I would worry about melted plastic in the bore...

[Bigsmoke]

Al,
I wonder if that could not be alleviated by using either an over powder wad or a Wonder Wad over the powder and below the shot cup.
I remember discussing this with Fred Neal at Cabela's years ago when the issue of steel shot in muzzleloaders was being debated and he mentioned talking about using a certain shot cup and did not have a problem with plastic fouling, even in heavy 10 gauge loads.
I am not much into shotgunning, so I have not really had any experience with this situation.  Just thinking that buffering the cup from the powder should solve any problem.
I do know that in using heavy charges in big bore rifles, I have had good luck in keeping patches from burning by using a lubricated cushion wad between the powder and the PRB.  I am thinking the concept should be the same.
John

[smokepole45]

bigsmoke, what you described is what I have in mind for a load. After I put in the first post, I did a little searching and found that plastic shot cups are not always 'appreciated' on this website. I apologize in advance if I offend. The thing is, my smoothbore has work to do. By next season it will be taking Sharp-tail Grouse and Pheasant. As it sits, the pattern is far too spread out to be effective past 25 yards. I need forty yards. The barrels are too thin to consider jug choking. All that is left as an option is some type of shot cup, and I fear that paper cups, properly made, will be too fragile for the field work we do.
On the plus side, I will be introducing some serious outdoors-men and shooters to the joys of a muzzle loading shotgun.

[Two Steps]

John, yeah, I see what you and smokepole are saying.  I reckon a lubed cushion wad would keep the direct fire/heat away from the shot cup.  I've never tried it but would be interested in seeing the results.  Smokepole...please let us know how this works out for you.

[No Deer]

Quite a few years ago I experimented with plastic cups.  I tried them with the cushion, and tried them with the cushion cut off.  I could not get any improvement in my pattern.  Granted, I did not spend a lot of time trying these, as I  ran out of patience with it when I did not see any improvement.  Maybe further testing would have gotten some results.  IIRC, I used cushion wads between the OP card and the cups, I did not have any problem with melting plastic.

[smokepole45]

Thanks for the info. I found some pre-slit cups with a flat base. I will load them as you described and 'wear out the pattern board' to see if I can tighten it up. Perhaps I can post some results in a week or so. Thanks, and stay warm and keep your powder dry in Lansing.

[Riley/MN]

Like No Deer, I tried 'em. I tried the CVA ones with a removable base. Tried with & without base, wad under cup, different degrees of slit in cup, (found you could make a pretty good slug w/o slitting at all!) I think I still have half a bag somewhere. never did get a decent turkey group. although if I could hit one in the head with that slug.....

[Rocklock]

I have a small supply of plastic cups given me years ago and now have no idea who to get them from. They came un split and hold 1 7/8 oz of 7 1/2 shot.  There are reference rings and I split them down to the 4th ring (4 splits).  Over powder wad (Murphy's Oil Soap), column, shot and over shot card.  Pattern at 35 yards is tight and a turkey killer to 50.  Only fire a couple of times per year and brush takes care of any residual plastic.

TC

[smokepole45]

How far down the shot cup is the fourth ring? Half? Three quarters?  Also, is the shot cup a plain flat base? There is a shooter's supply here that has all sorts of shot cups. I will see if I can find something similar. Thanks for any information.

[Kermit]

I knew guys about 4 decades ago who loaded exactly as you propose to do. I don't know that any of them actually patterned those loads. They carried a range box full of stuff to the range to bust clays. I shot a 20ga 44" flinter loaded "V M Starr style" with powder, 2 thin cards, salvaged shot, 1 thin card. I loaded from the bag in half the time and shot as well, sometimes beating them all.

Go ahead and try it. Your mileage may be superior.

[Feltwad]

If your gun is an original or even a repro  using plastic is the perfect way to ruin the bore of your gun . Black powder and plastic wads to not mix I have seen far too many muzzle loaders and breech loading hammer guns ruined  using these . Melting plastic builds up inside the bore which in turn causes barrel ripple , the build up of plastic is a obstruction which can cause a bulge and worse still a bursted barrel  Stick to your card wads  and a volume load it will always be the best
Feltwad

[Ironhand]

At one time I shot a lot of competitive BP trap. Those guys shot hundreds of rounds and had a lot riding on their load performance. No one shot plastic shot cups.

Ironhand

[Geezer in NH]

Using Remington All American wads in my Navy Arms double I could break as many clays at trap as I could with my 870TC trap gun.

Plastic fouling gone with 1 brush and pass of shooters choice.

By the way I never had the so called petroleum goop using petroleum products with Black.

[cyotewa]

My friends & I have been using plastic wads in both of my BP SxS since the 70's. I have shot over 3000 plastic wads in them and haven't had the slightest problem with them. I have less than 3000 left as I bought 6000 years ago I'll keep shooting them and as soon as I have a problem with them I'll let you know. I hear horror stories about them melting with BP but I don't think it has near the flame temp as smokeless.