Anyone pull a CVA breech plug?

[RobD]

both the cva and traditions rifles have barrels made in spain, and i found it impossibly hard going to pull the breech plug on a traditions flintlock barrel and found out from them they can't be removed without destroying the barrel.  

wondering if that's also true with cva barrels ... ?

[ec121]

Not sure but it seems like I remember that first you have to remove the drum or liner because they screw into the breechplug.  Otherwise they are just screwed in and should unscrew unless welded or have some sort of supertorque applied when they are installed.  I bought one of those $12 borescopes from Ebay to look at the breeches.  It works OK for checking the cleanliness of the breech and taking a look around the rifling.

[RobD]

got the scoop from cva - can't be done without destroying the barrel, same as with traditions ml's as all are made by the same manufacturer in spain.

[ohio ramrod]

both the cva and traditions rifles have barrels made in spain, and i found it impossibly hard going to pull the breech plug on a traditions flintlock barrel and found out from them they can't be removed without destroying the barrel.  

wondering if that's also true with cva barrels ... ?

 Actually I have removed several and replaced them with some I made.It is not easy and will void any warrenty you may have but it can be done. The same with removing the drum on percusions it can be done but care must be taken.

[RobD]

i found it impossible on a traditions, how'd ya do it (tools, setup and process) with a cva?  

sounds like it was very different than a traditions welded on breech plug.

[Riley/MN]

Is it a capper? If so, Did you pull the drum?

[ohio ramrod]

You MUST pull the drum, since it is threaded through the breech plug! Getting the breech plug removed and then realighned is difficult but not impossible. Both the drum and breechplug have an interference fit. Meaning they are actually a force fit.I spent over forty years doing precision machining and tool and die work so it wasn't beyond my means , but it is a precision job and not easy do to the forced fits.

[MountainDevil]

bobby hoyt does them without destroying the barrel.

No company, cva or traditions wants you pulling them apart so they will tell you not to do so otherwise you will ruin them.

[RobD]

bobby hoyt does them without destroying the barrel.

No company, cva or traditions wants you pulling them apart so they will tell you not to do so otherwise you will ruin them.

this is what i've learned about offshore trad ml's and their patent breech plugs ......

traditions tells you never to pull the plug as it will destroy the barrel - it's right in the "manual" that comes with the gun, and i got that same rap when i talked with an onshore traditions gunsmith in connecticut.

pedersoli advises to take the firearm to a gunsmith for plug removal.

investarms (lyman, cabela, dgw, and other rebranders) tells you that the plug IS removable with the right tools (a special "socket wrench" - i have one, it works well).

that special $20 "socket wrench" (used in conjunction with a large pipe wrench, and maybe even an extension handle) will more than likely remove any offshore patent breech plug.  it comes in three sizes, 1", 15/16" and 13/16".

[7hvdaman55]

Many years ago when I had two CVA rifles I did pull the breech plugs. If we are talking about a percussion rifle, you must first un thread the drum from the barrel. What I found was, the drum is drilled and threaded through the breech plug, and the drum is actually the bottom of the breech. I would also remind you that I did this 30 some years ago. So with that in mind I do not know if their breech systems have changed since then. Now days I build my own rifles of which are generally flintlocks. I hope I helped you out.
P>S> you will not destroy the barrel, but you may harm the tang of the breech plug by rounding the sharp corners. I did that and ended up making a new breech plug. The threads are metric, so be prepared for that possibility. You may want to soak the breech in a can of liquid wrench for a while, to ease the removal of drum and breech.

[RobD]

i had a few CVA kits back in the early 70's and they were made with USA parts, and i had no problem removing those breech plugs.  the current crop of CVA and Traditions rifle offerings are all made in Spain.  at the very least, in their current rifle documentation, Traditions warns that any attempt at breech plug removal will destroy the barrel.  i don't think they're welded on, but there IS something they do to the patent breech plug that makes it seems like it is welded.  i have good 'n' robust breech plug removal tooling and i could not make a Traditions patent breech budge, and just wound up buggering the barrel.  if'n i hadda go offshore for a trad ml, i'd rather just avoid CVA and Traditions and Pedersoli ml guns and stick with the better Investarms, where their patent breech plug can safely and fairly easily be removed with a proper wrench/socket, wrench, and octagon barrel jaws for a good vise.  and i think that the Investarms quality is superior to CVA and Traditions, and is at least on par with the better Pedersoli.

[MountainDevil]

How is the lyman plug better when it came rusted and corroded? No cva or traditions ive ever bought came like that when brand new, factory or kit form.


As others said, they can be removed, just got to understand how they work.

[RobD]

anomalies abound everywhere - congratulations, yer a winner.  maybe.  maybe not.

there is no great understanding about cva, traditions and pedersoli patent breech plugs - they're all NOTHING like traditional non-patent breech plug, nor at all like an investarms (lyman, cabelas, dgw, etc) patent breech plug.
 
so the ball's now i your court, bud - WHO removed a CURRENT cva (not a USA built cva, where the plug is even easier to remove than an investarms - been there, done that back in the 70's) or traditions patent breech plug and show me HOW it was done?

[MountainDevil]

That thar is the difference between you and I. You removed a plug off a brand new rifle that was corroded and rusted. No rifle of mine has ever needed to be pulled for any reason.

You know that saying, If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

[RobD]

jon, thankfully the difference between you and i isn't at all about pulling off breech plugs.

the plugs i've pulled were NOT really metal corroded or rusted, they simply had proofing residue in the breech that was never cleaned out, just gunk.  this is not a cool thing for a manufacturer to do but VERY COMMON with offshore guns when they come back from the PROOFER, not the manufacturer.  ask around about offshore proofing methods, if they're even done.  ask dromia, you know him, the ml mod at cast boolits, about euro ml proofing.  he's already vented about that in his thread here in this forum.  fwiw, i've seen that "corrosion" with cva, traditions and pedersoli guns as well, so consider yerself lucky if yours was removed before you got yer gun.

as to WHY DO I PULL ML BREECH PLUGS - i've answered that to YOU at least once, so go look it up as i have better things to do.