Shredded Patches

[Spotted Bull]

I very good friend of mine has a Uberti Hawken rifle that is I believe a .54 cal that he has owned for a very long time. We were discussing our respective smoke poles recently and he stated that he has long had a problem of the Hawken rifle just shredding patches. He said it became so bad that he had downsized the ball and was using two pillow tick patches. What I was wondering is how he could rectify this situation. Someone told him that the barrels on those old Uberti's were just so hard there was probably nothing he could do shy of getting it rebored into a larger caliber.

I told him I would inquire of those more knowledgeable than I.

Thanks in advance.

[prairie dog]

If you think the lands are cutting the patches get some JB bore paste on tight cleaning patches and lap / polish the bore.  I do this on all new factory center fire barrels as a matter of routine.  In a sense you are doing the same thing as hand lapping with a lead lapping slug only less aggressively.  There are two formulas of JB's bore paste on the market now, one is red the original is grey.  The grey is the more aggressive of the two and is what I use to smooth rough barrels.  The red is what I go to to remove copper fouling from an already smooth barrel.  

I would use the grey JB's on that rifle and plenty of elbow grease.  It will not hurt it one bit and may really improve that barrel.  Check the crown for sharp edges.  

You know several of us use denim for patching.  It's generally thicker and has a tighter weave than most ticking.  Try one thick denim patch instead of the two ticking patches. I use blue denim that measures 20 thousands when I compress it with my micrometer in my GPR and white denim measuring 18 thousands in my Charles Moore pistol.  I haven't been able to find any ticking that thick in any fabric store.

[rollingb]

It adds another step in the loading process, but he could try a card-wad over the powder charge, followed by the patched ball.

You don't state what powder he's using,... sometimes a mere change in powder can be enough to prevent the shredding of patches.

Also,.... those Uberti Santa Fe's had a rather sharp crown, so using either Emory-cloth, or sandpaper and his thumb, he might take the sharp edge off if the patches are being cut when he "starts" his ball.

[Spotted Bull]

You don't state what powder he's using,... sometimes a mere change in powder can be enough to prevent the shredding of patches.

Rollingb I'm pretty sure that he is using Goex in this rifle.

Prairie Dog you may have seen this rifle. It belongs to Mike Eddy, Running Turtle from Frozen Foot for many years.

[ross]

I had the same problem with a .45 GRRW barrel. I followed the instructions on the JB lapping compound jars( grey and red) . the results were easy loading, no torn patches and one hole groups!!! Go for it!!!

[TallTexan]

I've used JB's bore paste for many years starting with my cowboy guns as well as my muzzle loaders and always been happy with the results.  Lyman/Investarms barrels are particularly bad about cutting patches and not achieving their best accuracy until around 100 shots have gone through their bores.  JB's has always helped me speed the process along plus it removes fouling quickly and thoroughly.

[Ohio Joe]

Not saying this is the case, but there are a few other reasons why patches may shred.

If you're buying pre-lubed patches, that lube will break down that patch material and cause it to shred.

To light of patch/ball combo will cause patch to shred and burn through.

[Spotted Bull]

In this case Joe I don't think its either of those. I'm gonna tell him about the JB's and we will probably work that joker over together and see how she acts after that. I appreciate it gentlemen.

[amm1851]

I will be interested in your results,  as I am having a similar problem with one of my rifles.

[prairie dog]

In this case Joe I don't think its either of those. I'm gonna tell him about the JB's and we will probably work that joker over together and see how she acts after that. I appreciate it gentlemen.

I think that's best, always start with the least expensive fix.  I would sure recommend following the Dutch Schoultz method with patching and lube.

Sure, I know Mike.  Don't know his rifle though.

[TallTexan]

In this case Joe I don't think its either of those. I'm gonna tell him about the JB's and we will probably work that joker over together and see how she acts after that. I appreciate it gentlemen.

I think that's best, always start with the least expensive fix.  I would sure recommend following the Dutch Schoultz method with patching and lube.

Sure, I know Mike.  Don't know his rifle though.

I second Dutch's system, if it works with your rifle. I get great accuracy using mattress ticking that compresses to .018 lumbered with just a little beeswax and olive oil. So far, the very limited testing I've done with Dutch's dry lube recipes have yielded at least the same accuracy out of one of my rifles. Will it be consistent in that rifle as well as my others? Time and testing will tell.

By the way, where I started out I was using pre-cut, pre-lubed store bought patches of varying thicknesses, some of which shredded, some didn't. After learning a few things and switching to mattress ticking there was never any more of that.

[rdstrain49]

First let me say Prairie Dog is right on target, JB + very tight patch + lots of elbow grease usually = very good results.  (I change patches after 10 to 20 strokes or when the JB and patch form a bit of a glaze on the patch.  I do this with all new barrels whether black powder or smokeless.

Second, in extreme cases, usually but not always involving bore damage from rust pitting, I have used with good success a modifies "fire lapping" process.  I start with NAPA valve grinding compound ( 10 rounds ) and progressively use finer grit polishing compound ( 10 rounds each grit ).  I will either work the compound into the patch of a tightly patched round ball, or work the grit directly into a maxi or mini ball.  Seems like the mini is a bit more effective but either works.  I fire a three shot group between each grit just to check progress.

In either case work slowly and carefully, you can always take more metal off but it's very difficult (impossible) to put it back.  Hope this helps.

[Semisane]

Someone told him that the barrels on those old Uberti's were just so hard there was probably nothing he could do shy of getting it rebored into a larger caliber.

One thing for sure, he should disregard anything that particular "someone" tells him about muzzleloaders.

[Uncle Russ]

I've been a believer in JB's for many years.
As was mentioned earlier, even a brand spanking new rifle ain't range ready until I do my thing with JB's.
Tried several alternatives, even fire-lapping, but JB's gets the nod.

Uncle Russ...

[frenchman]

Watch out for the pillow ticking , i dont know if you cut your own but the new stuff isn't that great, one of my friends bought some and shreds like crazy , than he use some of my old stuff and holds together, after comparing the new stuff you could see thru it even after being washed .