Need Assistance!

[Hawken]

Guys

There are lots of you that have way more experience with the flinters than I have so I'm asking what you think about the lock in this photo? This is out of my full length stock rifle. It's an L & R Lock and from the photo someone else has looked at they have advised that since the photo I sent them was of the Cock at full throw...their opinion was that the 'throw' looked somewhat short. I've had some trouble with getting the rifle to fire from time to time and I'm wondering if I should send this back to L & R for a rework job! It just doesn't seem to throw enough sparks when watching in a dark room. The frizzen has some slight gouges in it and I think that was from earlier flint strikes that may have been set not quite right. ? I know the frizzen needs to be reground flat and have L & R reharden it possibly.

And by the way.....is L & R still doing business???

What say you??

Thanks!

Sorry about this photo! Computer won't let me rotate it the right way!!

L & R Lock by Sharps Man, on Flickr

[Winter Hawk]

You bet L&R is still in business.  I put their RPL replacement lock on my T-C flinter and it beat the snot out of the factory lock.  Mine has a shorter throw than the stock lock from T-C, and also as compared to the CVA lock on my Deer Creek rifle.  They do need to be clean and lubricated. 

I read a post somewhere that the writer was at L&R when some guy came in all irate because his "piece of junk" lock wouldn't work.  The owner of the shop asked if it had been lubed and was assured it was.  When he stripped it down, it was dry as a bone; he oiled it and it worked like it was supposed to.

I dry fire mine a lot with a piece of wood in lieu of the flint.  I get the practice and the lock internals get worn in.

~WH~

[rollingb]

Guys

There are lots of you that have way more experience with the flinters than I have so I'm asking what you think about the lock in this photo? This is out of my full length stock rifle. It's an L & R Lock and from the photo someone else has looked at they have advised that since the photo I sent them was of the Cock at full throw...their opinion was that the 'throw' looked somewhat short. I've had some trouble with getting the rifle to fire from time to time and I'm wondering if I should send this back to L & R for a rework job! It just doesn't seem to throw enough sparks when watching in a dark room. The frizzen has some slight gouges in it and I think that was from earlier flint strikes that may have been set not quite right. ? I know the frizzen needs to be reground flat and have L & R reharden it possibly.

And by the way.....is L & R still doing business???

What say you??

Thanks!

Sorry about this photo! Computer won't let me rotate it the right way!!

L & R Lock by Sharps Man, on Flickr

Yes,... L&R is doing business. 
With the frizzen in the closed position is the fint edge striking it above center on the frizzen face?
The general "rule of thumb" is,.... the flint edge ought to strike the frizzen about 2/3rds. of the way up from the bottom of the frizzen.
The "point of impact" on the frizzen face can be raised by flippin' your flint over (with the flint's "bevel down"),.... I know it looks a bit funny that way (at least I think so), but it's really not an unusual thing to do. 

Leather shims are also (sometimes) used to raise a flint that is striking too low.   

[Hank in WV]

The throw on that lock looks just fine. Can you post a pic of the lock with flint in, frizzen closed, and at half-cock?

[Hawken]

The throw on that lock looks just fine. Can you post a pic of the lock with flint in, frizzen closed, and at half-cock?

Hank

That photo was with it on half-cock and I had reversed the flint from what it was when shooting. I'll send another photo with it on full-cock as below with frizzen closed!

Untitled by Sharps Man, on Flickr

[Rocklock]

Looks like the flint is too short. Just my opinion.
TC

[rollingb]

The throw on that lock looks just fine. Can you post a pic of the lock with flint in, frizzen closed, and at half-cock?

Hank

That photo was with it on half-cock and I had reversed the flint from what it was when shooting. I'll send another photo with it on full-cock as below with frizzen closed!

Untitled by Sharps Man, on Flickr

It's more difficult to tell what the situation is when at full cock,.... adjusting the flint in the jaws should be done at half cock. I position my flint to where it's only about 1/16"-1/8" from the frizzen face at half cock.

And I agree with Rocklock,.... it looks like your flint is too short. 

[Hank in WV]

I agree with rollingb that the flint does look on the short size. Is that the Late English Lock? Their site says to use a 3/4" flint. Are you saying that when the rifle doesn't fire that the pan doesn't flash. Is your flint tight? Does the lock and frizzen operate freely with no binding in and out of the gun?

[Hawken]

I agree with rollingb that the flint does look on the short size. Is that the Late English Lock? Their site says to use a 3/4" flint. Are you saying that when the rifle doesn't fire that the pan doesn't flash. Is your flint tight? Does the lock and frizzen operate freely with no binding in and out of the gun?

This flint is 3/4" in length and maybe that's part of the 'flash in pan' problem. Stands to reason considering the arch of the hammer that if I use a shorter flint that it would strike lower on the frizzen! I think the frizzen is hard enough; just that it needs smoothing on a belt sander slightly.

[Winter Hawk]

This flint is 3/4" in length and maybe that's part of the 'flash in pan' problem. Stands to reason considering the arch of the hammer that if I use a shorter flint that it would strike lower on the frizzen! I think the frizzen is hard enough; just that it needs smoothing on a belt sander slightly.

Whoa now, are you getting ignition in the pan but no firing of the powder charge, or are you not getting the priming powder to ignite (flash in the pan)?  If the prime is lighting off but the main charge isn't, you have a problem with the vent, not the lock.  In that case I suggest that you use a pick to clear the vent before you shoot.  Possibly even open it up a tad with a drill, but no larger than 1/16th of an inch.

On the other hand, if the sparks from the flint aren't firing the priming charge the previous comments apply.  I didn't see anyone mention wiping the frizzen face when you are charging the pan.  That can cause no spark if there is soot build up on it.  I try to wipe mine down with my thumb before closing it after adding the primer charge.

~WH~

[rollingb]

This flint is 3/4" in length and maybe that's part of the 'flash in pan' problem. Stands to reason considering the arch of the hammer that if I use a shorter flint that it would strike lower on the frizzen! I think the frizzen is hard enough; just that it needs smoothing on a belt sander slightly.

Whoa now, are you getting ignition in the pan but no firing of the powder charge, or are you not getting the priming powder to ignite (flash in the pan)?  If the prime is lighting off but the main charge isn't, you have a problem with the vent, not the lock.  In that case I suggest that you use a pick to clear the vent before you shoot.  Possibly even open it up a tad with a drill, but no larger than 1/16th of an inch.

On the other hand, if the sparks from the flint aren't firing the priming charge the previous comments apply.  I didn't see anyone mention wiping the frizzen face when you are charging the pan.  That can cause no spark if there is soot build up on it.  I try to wipe mine down with my thumb before closing it after adding the primer charge.

~WH~

Good points WH ,....I just assumed he was already doin' that (but maybe not). 

[Winter Hawk]

I took some photos of my L&R lock as well as the that of the CVA.  The L&R has a noticeably shorter throw, but it also has a stronger main spring.  The instructions which came with the L&R said to use a 5/8" flint.  For comparison, the wood chip in the jaws measures right at 1" long, but I did have to file a notch so it can set back a little further against the cock screw.

Compare that to the CVA which also is supposed to use a 5/8" flint.  The wood chip is 11/16" long, so less than your flint but longer than what is supposed to be in the jaws.

Reliable spark comes from the angle at which the flint strikes the frizzen.  If the flint is too long it will hit higher and too straight on.  Too short and it will hit too far down on the frizzen which will give a more acute angle to scrape off more spark, but it can also dig in to the frizzen.  If the problem is that the priming charge isn't lighting off, you may want to try a 5/8" flint, or cut a hole in the leather to clear the cock screw so you can set the flint back a little.  Or if that has been done already, knap a notch in the back of the flint.  Conversely, if you want to try longer just move the flint out a bit in the jaws; just make sure to tighten that screw down good.

And lastly, if you PM me your address I can loan you my copy of Eric Bye's book, "Flintlocks - A Practical Guide for their Use and Appreciation."  I would want it returned after a reasonable time, not more than 6 years months.    Don't make me come to Texas to find you!!!   

~WH~

[Hawken]

This flint is 3/4" in length and maybe that's part of the 'flash in pan' problem. Stands to reason considering the arch of the hammer that if I use a shorter flint that it would strike lower on the frizzen! I think the frizzen is hard enough; just that it needs smoothing on a belt sander slightly.

Whoa now, are you getting ignition in the pan but no firing of the powder charge, or are you not getting the priming powder to ignite (flash in the pan)?  If the prime is lighting off but the main charge isn't, you have a problem with the vent, not the lock.  In that case I suggest that you use a pick to clear the vent before you shoot.  Possibly even open it up a tad with a drill, but no larger than 1/16th of an inch.

On the other hand, if the sparks from the flint aren't firing the priming charge the previous comments apply.  I didn't see anyone mention wiping the frizzen face when you are charging the pan.  That can cause no spark if there is soot build up on it.  I try to wipe mine down with my thumb before closing it after adding the primer charge.

~WH~

WH

Not getting enough spark to light up the pan! I've picked the vent prior to every attempt to fire...and also wiped the frizzen off as well as the flint to make sure it was clean. Vent hole is 1/16".

[Hawken]

I agree with rollingb that the flint does look on the short size. Is that the Late English Lock? Their site says to use a 3/4" flint. Are you saying that when the rifle doesn't fire that the pan doesn't flash. Is your flint tight? Does the lock and frizzen operate freely with no binding in and out of the gun?

Yes...this is the Late English Lock and 3/4" flint installed. The pan doesn't flash and I'm using good Goex 4F powder in the pan. Also I've been keeping the pan clean and free of any moisture! I've got this Lock out and I'm sending to L&R tomorrow for a rework job! Seems to be OK as for as operation but I want those guys to look it over at L&R!

Thanks!

[Winter Hawk]

I'm curious to hear what they find.  Keep us posted, would you?

~WH~