The Caplock & Flintlock Ignition Thoughts

[AxelP]

I shoot a Jim Chambers' PA Fowler, smoothbore 62 cal flintlock assembled by Paul Hildebrand. A Jim Chambers' Issac Haines flint riflegun in 50 cal with special extra slow twist, shallow groove rifling, assembled by Brent Gurtek out of Duluth. And finally a Jim Chambers' Short English rifle in flint that was also assembled by Brent Gurtek. All of them function properly and generally hit what I point em at. The weak link is always me. I have owned percussin guns in the past-- a Lyman Great Plains rifle in 50 cal, an italian made 1863 Zouave 58 cal rifled musket, and an italian made 1858 remington 44 revolver. All of them worked fine and again the weak link is generally who stares back at me from the mirror.

My go-to gun for hunting is the smoothbore as I can load it with ball or shot and I think the stock fits me the best because I tend to generally shoot it better than the others, not exactly sure why.

Ken

[Ohio Joe]

Hey Joe, that almost sounds like the guy who bought Daniel Boones tomahawk. The head was replaced two times and the handle five times.

  Hank, I forgot to mention that I also made a new trigger and trigger plate for that rifle, and installed a new trigger-guard as well. Yes sir, a true original CVA .45 caliber Mountain rifle with a few  modifications. The owner of Daniel Boone's tomahawk with the replacement head and handle would be so proud of me....   

Oh geezzz  I replaced the butt plate and toe plate also... My memory sure ain't what it use to be...

Well it appears I also replaced the under-rib, and thimbles, and entry thimble...

Okay,,,,okay,,,, 28 inches of the barrel is still original...

[Hank in WV]

You sure you're not the fella what bought that hawk?

[Ohio Joe]

You sure you're not the fella what bought that hawk?

Hmmm,,, I probably got it around here some place. 

[Hanshi]

I started out with both cap and flint back in the 1960s.  I still own long guns with both types of ignition and like both.  Most of mine are flint and I hunt exclusively with flint.  The cap guns do see occasional range time simply because they are really nice rifles and I like shooting them.  And since I can't shoot worth a flip, anyway, I'm equally bad with both types.   

[prairie dog]

Like so many folks I started with a CVA mountain rifle kit and the matching pistol both in percussion and 50 cal.  My eldest son has them now and he shoots them very well. 

Early on I followed some sound advice and never bought an over the counter flint lock.  It seems that any inexpensive cap lock can easily be made to work but so many things can be done wrong when building a flint gun.  All the shooters I know who have negative opinions of flint locks have had bad experiences with factory made guns.  It's understandable, a person can only take so much frustration before throwing in the towel. 

I now have two flintlock guns, the custom rifle I've been bragging about and the NorthStar West Chief's Gun.  I love shooting them and they are as reliable and the ignition is as fast as any percussion gun.

My advice to anyone starting out in muzzleloading is this, if you are not ready to spend the money for a semi-custom or full custom gun with a best quality lock, do not buy a flintlock.  And if you are prepared to spend the dollars it will help to have at least one flintlock shooting friend who can guide you through the learning curve.  I know there are folks who have factory flint rifles and are very satisfied with them.  But I know just as many who bought those same brand rifles and had so many problems that they became discouraged and gave up. 

Recently one of the new members of our club purchased one of the better quality import flint rifles.  He was having so many misfires and problems that he wasn't able to finish a five round match in the time allotted. (30 minutes)  After several monthly matches of this frustration and trying every tweek and fix suggested by others he was ready to give it up.  Fortunately, through a group effort, they finally got the last issue fixed and the rifle started functioning as it should. 
Had that fellow not had several knowledgeable flint shooters helping him he would certainly have quit.   

If you really have your heart set on a flintlock and must have a factory gun, I strongly recommend buying one used from someone who will show you how to load and clean it and take you to shoot it before you buy it.  Buying it new is a crapshoot.  You may get a good one and you may not.  Buying a used rifle from someone who is not willing to let you shoot it first guarantees you will get a problem they are trying to get rid of.   

So in a nutshell, if you have to go the inexpensive route to get started go with a percussion lock. If you ever get to shoot a good quality flintlock you will love it.

[SharpStick]

As I thought about starting on my muzzle loader adventure I considered the pros and cons of percussion cap vs. flintlock.  After reading lots of comments here in these forums I decided to start with a percussion rifle. I figured I had lots to learn first about the basics of black powder shooting, the equipment, taking care of it properly, etc. before a delved into the mysteries of keeping a flintlock in good working order.

For now I'm focusing on keeping my percussion rifle in working order. Already I've encountered several of the minor difficulties I had read about on this site. So far I've had cap failure due to caps sticking unnoticed inside the cup of the hammer; a failure to fire with 3 successive caps working but no big bang - resolved with a few grains of powder introduced via the bolster screw (and I've learned to fire a couple caps before the first load of powder of the day); and, most recently, after a day at the range discovered that my rifle would go off half cocked - took some careful reading of manual and adjusting of trigger set screws to remedy that one (I hope, I haven't been back to the range with it yet).

Once I'm feeling comfortable with my knowledge and skill with the percussion cap and think I'm ready to to try a flintlock, I'll be back on this site looking for advice on which to try. I'll definitely remember prairie dog's words here. They echo what a good friend often told me, "It only costs a little more to go first class and it is always worth it."

[Bigsmoke]

Okay,,,,okay,,,, 28 inches of the barrel is still original...

Can't help but wonder about the rest of the barrel???   

[Winter Hawk]

They're shooters for sure. I think Douglas made/supplied those barrels if I recall correctly?

I believe the early American made CVAs had Douglas barrels.  Later when Douglas quit making black powder barrels, Deer Creek bought the machinery from them.  When Deer Creek was selling their version of the CVA Mountain Rifle (after buying CVA's inventory when they stopped making them) they provided their in-house made barrels.  I believe the new owners are also making the barrels although I don't see the kits available any more.

-Kees-

[prairie dog]

I have one of those Deer Creek barrels.  It is a shooter! [ Invalid Attachment ]

[Uncle Russ]

 

Itty bitty groups, It's good for the soul!

Uncle Russ...

[Ohio Joe]

They're shooters for sure. I think Douglas made/supplied those barrels if I recall correctly?

I believe the early American made CVAs had Douglas barrels.  Later when Douglas quit making black powder barrels, Deer Creek bought the machinery from them.  When Deer Creek was selling their version of the CVA Mountain Rifle (after buying CVA's inventory when they stopped making them) they provided their in-house made barrels.  I believe the new owners are also making the barrels although I don't see the kits available any more.

-Kees-

My CVA's were from the late 70's, and I can't remember who told me they had the Douglas barrels (may have been the guy I bought them from who also did rebuilds on motors and had a gun shop on the side), or someone from Shawnee Long Rifles (the club I belonged to back then), but anyway - they were and still are good shooting barrels. They don't get much use anymore, but I could never part with 'em as they were the first 3 muzzle loading rifles I bought (kit's - 2 Mountain Rifles and 1 Kentucky Rifle), so I got quite an attachment to them.

Now I also have a 1" x .50 cal Douglas barreled X-Stick rifle, and the best I ever shot with it was a 50-4X, however that was in practice. I also shot a 50-4X with my 1-1/8" x .50 cal Green Mountain Barreled X-Stick Rifle - and again that was in practice... Back in the day when game time came I could only muster 47's to 49's out 'em with some X's, but that's on me - not the barrels and what they are capable of. I did win a few 3rd place medals with 'em both,,, but these days the X-stick game is so "sight" modern, it doesn't even make those X-Stick Matches enjoyable.