How Clean is Clean Enough?

[SharpStick]

I've viewed lots of discussions and opinions regarding how to clean muzzleloaders.  For most of my rifles and handguns I can just look down the barrel and maybe shine a light from the opposite end and easily see how clean the barrel is. Not so for a muzzleloader. So after my last shooting adventure I pulled out my endoscope camera and took a look after each step through the cleaning process. Thought I'd share the pictures here.

I had taken about 20 shots without swabbing or cleaning in any way. Due to the limits on picture size per post I'll do them in batches following each stage in the process. Here's the process I followed:

• Dirty barrel
• Filled with tepid water for 5 minutes then drained
• Swabbed water in and out 6 strokes with mop (with tubing attached to nipple leading to jar of tepid water)
• Swabbed with dry mop
• Swabbed with patches, first with Lehi Valley Lube/Cleaner/Preservative then dry

Here are the pictures of the dirty barrel.
Just inside the muzzle:
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Abut halfway down the barrel:
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At the "chamber" (I don't know what else to call this end of the barrel):
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Backed out a little. You can definitely see the transition from where powder sits and further up the barrel.
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[SharpStick]

Here are pictures after letting soak in tepid water

Muzzle:
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Barrel:
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Chamber - you can see some water on the lower left and it's starting to look shiny in there:
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[SharpStick]

After swabbing water in and out through nipple.
Muzzle
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Barrel
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Chamber
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[SharpStick]

After dry mopping
Muzzle
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Barrel
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Chamber
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[SharpStick]

After patches with Lehi Valley L/C/P and dry
Muzzle
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Barrel
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Chamber
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And just for fun, here's a link to video of entire barrel - https://www.dropbox.com/s/ougdwg4vyjr68ky/barrel.mp4?dl=0 I hope it works.

[Ohio Joe]

Hello SharpStick,

I don't own a camera that will get pictures of inside my rifles bore's,,, but I clean/swab until I'm getting clean white patches, then run dry patches to dry out the bore, then they get a lite coat of Birchwood Casey Gun Sheath oil.  After all that I go into a dark room and shine a "pin" flashlight down the muzzle and it reflects a bright shinny bore and breech plug area... That's how I tell if I'm clean, but it's really the patches themselves that tell me through reading how clean they are coming out of the bore.     

[Paulk]

I swab with moose milk after shooting until pretty clean, then clean the barrel with water, dry patches until getting clean white patches.  At which point I'm satisfied and then oil it up.

[AxelP]

I use water and cloth patches until they come out clean. Then I dry and oil with wd40 or lehigh valley lube or ballistol etc.... Sometimes during the end of the wet process, the patches have a slight grey tint to them due to the water, but the bore is clean. There is no crime in using a bore light to make sure.

K

[PetahW]

.

Ever since I seasoned my bores with Ox-Yoke Bore Butter 1000+ (about 30+ years ago),  I simply flush the bore, breechblock & ignition channel (the nipple is removed & cleaned under a hot water tap & blown out/dry) with T/C's #10 Bore Cleaner (aka: Moose Milk), pump a few patches soaked with the same up/down the bore a few times before running dry patches downbore.

The last thing I do to the bore before putting the smokepole away until the next time (sometimes 10+ months) is to run a loose patch charged with Bore Butter downbore once to recoat the metal. (I wipe down the exterior metal with that same last patch.

YMMV, but over the 30+ years, I've never experienced any rusting (inside or out), and the accuract has always been about minute-of-deer-ear.


.

[Uncle Russ]

I always enjoy reading these posts, as they clearly show there are more ways to skin a Cat than just one.

The OP on "How clean is clean enough?" Is really the individuals choice and there are many ways to get there.
In 60 plus years of owning and shooting muzzleloaders, receiving my first one about 1950 or 1951, I have never had or seen rust in the bore of my guns that a quick wiping wouldn't remove.

Now I've seen others that had some pretty ugly 'stuff' in their bore, and I have always wondered how a person could allow that happen, when even the most basic of cleaning and care can prevent it.

I have used "Ed's Red" for that 'final' wipe & swab since ol'  Shep was a pup, and I've yet to find any rust in my guns after sitting for as long as a year or two.

There are plenty of things on the market that will take care of the rust problem, and most shooters are not afraid to use them!
if there is anything in this world that will totally ruin your Muzzleloader, it is laziness and total neglect.....don't ever let that happen!

Uncle Russ....

[Winter Hawk]

I have used "Ed's Red" for that 'final' wipe & swab since ol'  Shep was a pup, and I've yet to find any rust in my guns after sitting for as long as a year or two.

M-y-y-y goodness, Uncle Russ!  I thought I was the only one to use Ed's Red on my muzzleloaders.   

Now I haven't been at it as long as you, having bought my first black powder pistol (Dixie's Navy Colt replica I got from a fellow technician on the White Alice System for $30, with a Dixie "hair straightener" ball mold, a bag of balls and a pound of ffg DuPont thrown in to get me started back in 1968), and I didn't learn about Ed's Red until several years ago but it sure does the job on ALL my guns!  Good stuff for sure.

-Kees-

[Paulk]

I always enjoy reading these posts, as they clearly show there are more ways to skin a Cat than just one.

The OP on "How clean is clean enough?" Is really the individuals choice and there are many ways to get there.
In 60 plus years of owning and shooting muzzleloaders, receiving my first one about 1950 or 1951, I have never had or seen rust in the bore of my guns that a quick wiping wouldn't remove.

Now I've seen others that had some pretty ugly 'stuff' in their bore, and I have always wondered how a person could allow that happen, when even the most basic of cleaning and care can prevent it.

I have used "Ed's Red" for that 'final' wipe & swab since ol'  Shep was a pup, and I've yet to find any rust in my guns after sitting for as long as a year or two.

There are plenty of things on the market that will take care of the rust problem, and most shooters are not afraid to use them!
if there is anything in this world that will totally ruin your Muzzleloader, it is laziness and total neglect.....don't ever let that happen!

Uncle Russ....

Russ, I just googled Ed's Red.  Never heard of it.  Do you mix your own or buy the premixed stuff that brownell's sells?  It says it's a bore cleaner.  Are you using that as a final "oil" wipe as well?

[Uncle Russ]

Paul, I've always made my own. I wasn't aware you could buy it commercially.
I will be the 1st to admit that the initial batch is a bit spendy, if you dont have any 'left-overs' to start with.
Likely the most expensive component will be the Anhydrous Lanolyn, but that is an optional ingredient anyway.
When I make a batch, I make well over a gallon.
And, luckily, I discovered a long time back that you can buy little 'Travel Bottles' from Wally World that are very inexpensive and work great for all those "buddies" you suddenly find yourself with.😇

Yes, I wipe the bore, and everything metal I can get to without disassembly at the range.....then, after I get home and actually clean the gun, including the lock, I let the gun dry good, and wipe everything down again with Ed's Red.

Kees can tell you, there is just nothing better for this purpose!

A bit of a pain in the "you know what" to put together.
However, you will end up with enough lube/protectant to last you for years, and if you have several grandsons in their twenties, and each with their own collection of guns, it will cut down on them stealing yours, every time they "just stopped by to see how your doing".
Anymore, when my grandkids 'just drop by', I make them keep their hands in their pockets before they go inà the shop.

Ed's Red, its hard to beat!
I'm sure there's plenty 'good stuff' on the market that you can buy that may work just as well, without the hassle of making Ed's Red.
I have tried a lot, if not most, and I have never found anything that will even come close....you need to Google... Ed Harris, he knew a little bit about shooting cast too.

Uncle Russ.....

[Ohio Joe]

Ed's Red,,, I've heard a 'lot of talk about this cleaner. Have never used it myself, but you guys got me thinking, so I looked it up...  I was right  with it until the part about the Acetone. That made me shy away for fear of stock discoloration since most the ML's I shoot the barrel's are pinned to their stock and I seldom remove them.

However, the ones that are wedged to the stock,,, well,,, I'm thinking again! 

[Paulk]

I don't really want to buy all those chemicals and mix up a big batch but brownell's sells it and it's suppose to be the exact formula Ed Harris used.  I may get a small container and try it on a gun .