Which Black Powder?

[SharpStick]

When I first got my firestick the only powder I could readily find was Pyrodex RS. Later I found some Goex FFG.  I've just used up my pound of Pyrodex and started using the Goex. Thought I'd better start searching for more before it becomes an "emergency".
Bass Pro is where I found the Goex previously, but they are kinda far away. I discovered Sportsman's Warehouse carries Pyrodex, but not Goex.

At SW today I discovered another brand I hadn't seen mentioned anywhere - Alliant Black MZ Muzzleloader Powder. Only $9.99 for 1 lb.
Anyone know about this stuff? Is it good?  Here's a link: https://www.sportsmanswarehouse.com/sportsmans/Alliant-Black-MZ-Muzzleloader-Powder/productDetail/Powder-and-Primers/prod99999030268/cat100011

At the risk of starting a religious war, I'll ask, what types of black powder do y'all use or recommend?

Forgive me if this topic has been exhaustingly covered elsewhere in the forum and point me to it.

SS

[Uncle Russ]

SS, I think this is a very fair question.
Many of our folks can't get real black powder locally, and just don't have enough interested shooters locally to share the larger Mail Orders, where a definite savings can be found, so they are mostly using BP Substitutes.

The Powder you mentioned is a BP Substitute, but their Marketing verbiage might lead one to believe that this BP Replacement  is indeed a modern miracle. ie
"Alliant Black MZ Muzzleloader Powder -Moisture resistant and virtually non-corrosive, Black MZ replicates black powder performance without the ignition headaches and cleaning hassles common to traditional black powder use".

That sounds pretty good....In fact, that sounds like the very same thing every BP Replacement made yet all strive for.
However, if you take time to read the reviews you might find that everyone did not share that same opinion with Alliant.
Still yet, the majority did seem to like it, and I strongly suspect that is a good thing, at least for those who don't have access to the real thing.
I strongly suspect that the listed price per pound will give this product considerable exposure, and exposure is what every good BP Replacement needs, it helps to separate the wheat from the chafe, if ya get my drift..

Uncle Russ...

[Ohio Joe]

Kind of hard to beat that price for a substitute powder, and since you're shooting a caplock there's no reason not to try it.

Myself, I'll stick with my Goex from Powder Inc., but that's a personal choice (mainly because that's all I've used for over 40 years) and I also shoot flintlock ML's...  Substitute black-powder is not friendly to flintlock ignition.

If you try it, let us know what you think. 

[amm1851]

Goex or Swiss. I use Goex, but I have heard many speak on the virtues of Swiss. I would avoid Elephant powder, as it is dirrty stuff. 

[Bigsmoke]

First black powder experience was Summer, 1964.  Since then it has been either Dupont or GOEX.
Off and on I have tried Pyrodex, 777, Wano, Swiss, Elephant, etc., etc.  Strangely enough, I always come back to GOEX.  I think that might say something.
Back in the late '90's, I did a lot of chronograph testing with different grades of different powders using a variety of my big bore rifles.  I think I got the best results velocity wise from Swiss, but I did not feel that the increase in ball speed was worth the increased price.  Not unexpected was the increase in velocity between Fg and Ffg.  The amazing thing to me was that the premium Pyrodex powder (cannot recall its name) showed higher velocity than Ffg did.
I believe some of the providers will ship powder in 5 pound shipments which should be doable for most anyone interested in shooting.  I believe you can mix granulations (and maybe brands) as well.
Happy shooting !!!
John

[AxelP]

Pyrodex has been known to corrode bp barrels very quickly. I know of several accomplished shooters that will not touch the stuff.

I used to use pyrodex in my civil war percussion guns and never had a corrosion problem but I always cleaned my guns quickly and regularly.

Of course for flintlocks, pyrodex and other subs for that matter, do not work very well because their ignition temp is just too high, and you will get misfires and/or poor ignition. Just about any real black powder will work better than pyrodex in a flintlock. I use Goex, Swiss, Schutzen-- because that is what I have been able to purchase locally here in central California.

K

[Bigsmoke]

Ken,
Where are you picking up your powder?
Only place I can think of that might carry it in Fresburg would be Herb Bauer's.
Some place else?
What is a pound of GOEX Ffg go for these days here in the liberal state of LaLaLand?
John

[rollingb]

Pyrodex has been known to corrode bp barrels very quickly. I know of several accomplished shooters that will not touch the stuff.

I used to use pyrodex in my civil war percussion guns and never had a corrosion problem but I always cleaned my guns quickly and regularly.

Of course for flintlocks, pyrodex and other subs for that matter, do not work very well because their ignition temp is just too high, and you will get misfires and/or poor ignition. Just about any real black powder will work better than pyrodex in a flintlock. I use Goex, Swiss, Schutzen-- because that is what I have been able to purchase locally here in central California.

K

I agree 100% with you AxelP,.... that's why I got a silent chuckle out of Alliant's propaganda that states "Alliant Black MZ Muzzleloader Powder -Moisture resistant and virtually non-corrosive, Black MZ replicates black powder performance without the ignition headaches and cleaning hassles common to traditional black powder use".

In fact,.... I doubt the fake powder even has less "cleaning hassles" than real black powder.

I know for a fact,... that Pyrodex requires every bit as much effort in cleaning as Goex, or it'll ruin a barrel pretty quick. 

[Bigsmoke]

Black MZ replicates black powder performance without the ignition headaches and cleaning hassles common to traditional black powder use".

I am thinking they are confusing ignition headaches with Pyrodex and not black powder.  Even with musket cap ignition I used to get delayed ignition with Pyrodex.  Wonder if their copywriter has ever shot black powder before?

[rollingb]

Black MZ replicates black powder performance without the ignition headaches and cleaning hassles common to traditional black powder use".

I am thinking they are confusing ignition headaches with Pyrodex and not black powder.  Even with musket cap ignition I used to get delayed ignition with Pyrodex.  Wonder if their copywriter has ever shot black powder before?

Sure doesn't sound like they have, does it. 

[peterh]

I too need black powder. I am looking at buying Wano  brand $15.99 a pound, i need 25 pounds. Just how good is it, i need 1f , 2f  and 3f.

[Bigsmoke]

From my testing of WANO years ago, I was not terribly impressed.
There is a possibility that they have improved it, but I do not know for sure.
I tested Fg, Ffg and Fffg in 8 bore, 12 bore and 20 bore rifles and a .54 cal rifle as well using heavy charges.  I honestly do not remember details, but it seems that velocity on all grades was significantly less than with GOEX.  Like in the 100 to 200 FPS range.  On the 8 bore I was using 250 to 300 grains of Fg and Ffg.  The 12 and 20 bore rifles were tested with maybe 130 to 200 grains and the .54 was maybe 60 - 110 grains.
I also recall that it seemed to burn dirtier than the other powders.
On the good side, the cans of powder that I got were round with a funnel like top which meant that all the powder in the can would pour out, instead of the flat face like on GOEX which retained the last little bit of powder.
Depending on what you will be using it for, the above might or might not matter but it would be a good idea to verify where your point of impact is with the WANO - it could be different than with other powders.
John

[peterh]

Going to be using most of my powder in my cannons and mortar, my stick with Goex  1f  as the mortar likes it, my 2 cannons will burn any
powder BP or pyrodex,  on volume for volume.

[AxelP]

Bigsmoke, I used to buy it at Herb Bauers in Fresno but alas, they have closed their doors... The last time I bought some was an online "group buy" thru a local club. That was a few years ago.

K

[Bigsmoke]

WHAT?
Herb Bauer's has closed?
Rats, that is too bad.  What a surprise.  I thought they had a pretty good lock on everything sporting, albeit a bit high priced, they pretty much had what you wanted.  Any idea why they closed?

Quick side story.  Way back when, I went in there looking for a black powder rifle.  I saw a Renegade and came home and "mentioned" that I had seen a rifle that would make a good birthday present for me.  Ms. Smoke, being the dutiful wife she is, heard the hint and followed through.  The day after my birthday I went down there to equip myself with stuff I would need to shoot the rifle.  The T/C starter kit contained 20 maxi balls, a jar of Maxi Lube, a short starter, a powder measure and a nipple wrench.  That, a can of caps and a pound of powder and I was ready to make some smoke.

Well, 20 maxi balls do not last long enough to really have a lot of fun, so the following week, I went back again to pick up some more bullets.  However, they did not sell bullets by themselves, had to buy the whole kit.  And of course, they did not sell .530 round ball or patches.  So, I ordered a .530 R/B mold and some patches from Dixie.  Went to Fresno Ag and bought 5 pounds of plumber's lead and a lead pot and started casting round ball.  About that same time, a good friend had gotten the same rifle from Herb's and we started casting together.  One thing came to another and we decided that if no one in Fresno sold R/B, the market was there to start casting commercially.  We were so naive.  Anyway, we went through the formalities, got a sales tax number, published fictitious name statement, etc.  We were off to the big times now.  It so happened that the State Shoot was coming up soon, so we started casting something serious to stock up for all the anticipated sales we would have.  Went to the bank and got a $500 loan and went down to Tulare to a distributor there and stocked up on $500 worth of accessories (even then it wasn't really a lot).  And that was the start of Smoke and Thunder Gun Supply.  In 1977, Mrs. Smoke and I moved to Idaho and took half the inventory with us and that eventually turned into October Country.  Friend Shannon continues to run Smoke and Thunder to this day.  Incidentally, we cast all the popular sizes, but as soon as we saw that Speer was making R/B, we retired the moulds and started stocking Speer, then Hornady.

All thanks to Herb Bauer not having any round balls.  And now he is gone and S & T lives on.  That must say something, but I am not sure what.

Now you know the rest of the story.

John