Smoothbore Maintenance

[Ohio Joe]

Last night when I was getting the 16 ga. smoothy rounded up for the coming Rendezvous next weekend, I notice something a bit odd. The stock at the muzzle seemed loose - (and it always did seem just a bit loose fit) and on examining it (taking the barrel out) I found that the front tennon was loose from its solder joint. I silver soldered it back on and all is good to go.

I bet I'll start seeing some better results from the smoothbore at the Range now. I'll find out next week. It's kind'a funny, the ol' Trade Gun seems a bit more solid now when shouldering it...   

 

[rollingb]

Having the barrel "tied down" for it's whole length should help with accuracy. 

[Ohio Joe]

That's what I was a thinkin'. 

I think it's next Friday morning (10:00 am) at the Chadron Rondy they'll have the trade gun match Rondo. Ought to be fun! 

[rollingb]

That's what I was a thinkin'. 

I think it's next Friday morning (10:00 am) at the Chadron Rondy they'll have the trade gun match Rondo. Ought to be fun! 

[Uncle Russ]

Having the barrel "tied down" for it's whole length should help with accuracy. 

I betcha you're spot-on with this one, Rondo! 

Somewhat akin to "full bedding" on a modern firearm.
Although I have never read, or even know of any research on the presence of 'Harmonics' in Muzzle Loaders, I have always held the suspicion that it was there, if it's more or less pronounced I have no clue, but I do feel confident it is always there.
And, due to the designs of Black Powder Firearms, it would appear to be of very little concern.

I never even think of this factor with any of my Muzzleloaders, but in a situation such as Joe described,  if the POI changes and that change holds, I believe it would confirm, or deny depending on results, my own suspicions that it is ever present.

You can also betcha I am going to be following this thread very close!

Uncle Russ...

 

[Ironhand]

Having the barrel "tied down" for it's whole length should help with accuracy. 

I betcha you're spot-on with this one, Rondo! 

Somewhat akin to "full bedding" on a modern firearm.
Although I have never read, or even know of any research on the presence of 'Harmonics' in Muzzle Loaders, I have always held the suspicion that it was there, if it's more or less pronounced I have no clue, but I do feel confident it is always there.
And, due to the designs of Black Powder Firearms, it would appear to be of very little concern.

I never even think of this factor with any of my Muzzleloaders, but in a situation such as Joe described,  if the POI changes and that change holds, I believe it would confirm, or deny depending on results, my own suspicions that it is ever present.

You can also betcha I am going to be following this thread very close!

Uncle Russ...

Harmonics do occur in muzzleloaders. They may be less pronounced in a ML than a modern due to the lower pressures, longer pressure curve and thicker barrel walls, but they are there. At least according to the laws of physics.

As for adjusting to them, of course we do. Barrel harmonics are one of the reasons we tailor the load to the gun.

IronHand

[Uncle Russ]

Harmonics do occur in muzzleloaders. They may be less pronounced in a ML than a modern due to the lower pressures, longer pressure curve and thicker barrel walls, but they are there. At least according to the laws of physics.

As for adjusting to them, of course we do. Barrel harmonics are one of the reasons we tailor the load to the gun.

IronHand 

You're right about that, Ironhand 

I suspect I was thinking more in terms of shims, bedding, pressure, whatever, on a particular 'sweet spot'.
But, you're spot-on about tailoring the load, in essence, you are in fact determining that 'sweet spot'.

FWIW; I know my own T/C Big Boar .58 shoots much better when I place a a smaller (.45 cal / 0.0012) patch in the channel under the barrel, near the very end, to apply a wee bit of upward pressure....it's much harder to replace the barrel pin, but groups did in fact shrink, with both RB and Conicals.
 
Still yet, other guns, other calibers, were a simple process of range time and different patch / lube / load experimentation.
So much so that I never felt a need to explore any further.

The fore mentioned T/C is the very reason I felt Harmonics almost had to be present and vary with load variation in Muzzleloaders using BP. 
Keep in mind the platform for the .58, is a old re-worked T/C Renegade Stock, with Davis Triggers and a L&R Lock, which also serves as a basis  for a .50 -1:26 GM, .54 1-48 T/C, .56 -SB T/C, and the .58 -1:62 T/C barrels, but that 'patch' under the barrel I mentioned earlier only serves it purpose when using the .58...it is never present when using the other barrels, and all the other barrels including the .56 smooth bore is exceptionally accurate up to 50 / 60 yds.

Making that .58 Big Boar shoot to my own expectations was possibly my own greatest challenge in getting any Muzzleloader to shoot well.
And, THAT is what led me to thinking Harmonics, of some nature, surely had to be a factor.

Someone once said, "Only accurate guns are interesting"....and I fully agree, as most of us do.
And we, those who truly love these old guns, will do anything we can to make them accurate, including doing our best to control the Harmonics, no matter how evident Harmonics may be.

And that experience is the very reason I think Ohio Joe just might see a big difference his accuracy....but, we'll see.

Uncle Russ...

 

   

[Ohio Joe]

Well, it certainly can't hurt...

I'll let you know after Fur Trade Days is over. However to be quite honest - I've not had the time (or weather permitting) to even give the ol' smoothbore an outing this year. That ought to change this coming week. 

[prairie dog]

I don't mention this often, because it ain't historically correct,,, but I see remarkable improvements in accuracy and consistency of poi when I glass bed the tang and barrel on my muzzleloaders.  And I have plenty of small group targets and match awards to prove it.  Pistols, rifles, and yes, even smoothbores benefit from a good bedding job.  Don't neglect the pins and wedges either.  I don't glass bed those, but I do pay attention to the tension on them.  Don't want them loose or too tight but adjust them until they are all as close to the same as possible.  And check them often in case they loosen up.  For that reason, I don't remove barrels from stocks to clean them.  I remove the lock and use flush tubing. 

Yes barrel harmonics are present in muzzleloaders and it even effects pistols firing very light target loads. I can't say that harmonics are as much a factor as matching the powder charge to the twist rate or the patch thickness to the grove depth, but each small variable factor has an effect.  When you get them all dialed in and working together the results are pretty impressive. 

[Uncle Russ]

I don't mention this often, because it ain't historically correct,,, but I see remarkable improvements in accuracy and consistency of poi when I glass bed the tang and barrel on my muzzleloaders.  And I have plenty of small group targets and match awards to prove it.  Pistols, rifles, and yes, even smoothbores benefit from a good bedding job.  Don't neglect the pins and wedges either.  I don't glass bed those, but I do pay attention to the tension on them.  Don't want them loose or too tight but adjust them until they are all as close to the same as possible.  And check them often in case they loosen up.  For that reason, I don't remove barrels from stocks to clean them.  I remove the lock and use flush tubing. 

Yes barrel harmonics are present in muzzleloaders and it even effects pistols firing very light target loads. I can't say that harmonics are as much a factor as matching the powder charge to the twist rate or the patch thickness to the grove depth, but each small variable factor has an effect.  When you get them all dialed in and working together the results are pretty impressive.

 

Uncle Russ...